# Pastebin sjrad4Sg 11:13 AM <~barredowl> okay, then. since most everybody is done with the skip, shall we start with our first impressions? 11:13 AM <+cybersqyd> this feels, very introductory 11:13 AM I had to check again to make sure this wsn't part of the Verdent/Veldt stuff 11:13 AM <~barredowl> yeah, it really does. 11:13 AM <~barredowl> whether that's a bad thing, though, i guess i'll have to see. 11:14 AM There's some great blending of traditional prose and clinical tone here, especially with the testing logs, the lines about this anomaly spreading through various GoIs, and the ending line about protecting humanity. 11:14 AM It seems reminiscent of scp-1483 with the worldbuilding 11:14 AM <+cybersqyd> it's weird cos while it's clearly introductory, it also doesn't really get me excited to read more? 11:14 AM cybersqyd: I am with you on that 11:14 AM <+cybersqyd> it feels too much like it's just using a lot of words to say 'oh btw superheroes exist now' 11:14 AM Yeah. But it isn't even all that clear 11:15 AM Magic tree, spoopy liquid, superheros seems to be the underlying story 11:15 AM I enjoyed this one. Its a nice blend of the SCP format we are used to with what is essentally a Foundation ready to move to war if need be 11:15 AM <~barredowl> yeah, i can sorta see that; there are some parts which get me interested, but in terms of getting me invested for later on, it's 50/50 11:15 AM I am with BlueJones on I like the concept of actually getting onto a war footing 11:15 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:15 AM <~barredowl> that's fun, yeah 11:15 AM <+cybersqyd> I mean, I like that theoretically but I wish there'd been...more of it in here? 11:15 AM ^ 11:16 AM We know that the Foundation has the resources to wage full-scale war, but most of the time it never really explores a full scale action 11:16 AM <~barredowl> yeah; at the moment, it feels a tiny bit lackluster 11:16 AM this is the setup for something i thimk i'll really enjoy, but the skip itself is rather boring 11:16 AM I am unsure what would have been added without excess story bloat though 11:16 AM <~barredowl> like there's something else which should draw us in at a later date 11:16 AM It would need a bit of a rework to properly develop the story further from what I can tell 11:17 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah probably 11:17 AM There's a lot of very obvious questions which will most likely get answered later on (e.g. what is Document 3396-ALABASTER? What does "THRIVE" mean? What do the cryptic things the infected people say mean?). I would've liked a bit more worldbuilding to set up what kind of Foundation we're dealing with here, because it seems to be very bland from the little description that is given to it. 11:18 AM i feel like the main issue is that the skip has very little going on for it beyond providing a base to build upon in the tales 11:18 AM <@Gee0765> so i love apotheosis as a canon/series 11:18 AM And I also agree with Malyce that a lot of the things here aren't that clear. 11:18 AM <@Gee0765> but like 11:18 AM <~barredowl> uh huh, yeah 11:18 AM <@Gee0765> this article isn't actually very good 11:18 AM This seems very much against qntm's ""To be continued" is your enemy. Write a complete story in one chapter." 11:18 AM <@Gee0765> like, scp articles are meant to stand on their own 11:18 AM <~barredowl> yeah; by itself, it's sorta poor as its own thing. 11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> I always kinda have mixed feelings on qntms wisdom there tho 11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> like, it's generally very good advice 11:19 AM it explains the shift in the status quo, and creates a couple of characters, but these characters aren't really fleshed out in an interesting way so there's nothing for me to enjoy here 11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> but i think sometimes it's fine to not 11:19 AM okay so actually never mind it got rescheduled so im here 11:19 AM Yeah, there needs to be a hook somewhere to get the reader to continue reading. 11:19 AM I'll hop in for the next one 11:19 AM Honestly though it does set up the canon rather nicely cause we know what the threat is and we know how bad it can get with the Foundation preparing to go to war, but as you all said there isn't much here beyond "We will go to war if this gets completely out of hand" 11:19 AM cybersqyd I agree, but with a skip like this it seems relevant 11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:19 AM As the story cuts off abruptly 11:20 AM (I am being extremely hypocritical here ik) :p 11:21 AM SharpEmbrace: I agree with all of your points except the shift in the status quo. Yes, there are mentions of changes happening within various GoIs and society as a whole, but since there's nothing to base those GoIs off of in this canon yet, I can't really say that it's much of a shift at all. I do agree that there's only the real bare bones of a story here. It's mostly there just to serve as in-universe flavor. 11:21 AM Also, the navigation thing at the bottom makes this very clear its part of something larger. This feels like a bit of a cop out, it's sort of saying "look look, there is more" 11:21 AM <+cybersqyd> There's enough here that we know there's been a shift in the status quo and roughly what it looks like kinda; but not quite enough that we know what it actually looks like 11:21 AM Well, that's less of a problem with the article itself and more of a problem with how the CSS looks. 11:22 AM red3: presumably rogue superheroes was not the status quo prior to this? 11:22 AM red3 I mean, they could have just not put it there :p 11:22 AM <~barredowl> cybersqyd: that seems like the case for me, yeah. it's relatively broad, perhaps too broad, in what it's setting up. 11:22 AM cybersqyd: yeah, it's not defined clearly enough for it to really get me excited about reading more 11:22 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:22 AM And it was more of a comment on how the skip doesnt properly end, but then directs you to another article. It would be fine on a self contained story skip red3 11:24 AM I am not sure there is much to say more on this skip without context 11:24 AM <@Gee0765> i mean as far as im concerned context shouldn't matter for an scp article 11:24 AM I agree Gee 11:24 AM Merely saying, we havent really got enough to talk about here 11:24 AM thoughts on all the jargon? 11:24 AM <+cybersqyd> I'm reminded of SCP-4514 here; in that both set up a canon and like, are the start of a story 11:24 AM It seems well written, but lacks a proper full story 11:25 AM DrMoned: Yeah, but I don't think that this is meant to be a scip with a fully contained story necessarily. Again, its main purpose is to set up the world and provide a bit of reference for everything that happens. It's the entire exposition wrapped together in a neat little scip, so I don't think it's really fair to say that this should have a full and proper story. 11:25 AM <+cybersqyd> But 4514 feels...interesting on it's own and just uses the canon as a framing device 11:25 AM It's like criticizing a prologue for not being the entire novel. That's not the point of it. 11:25 AM <@Gee0765> 4514 is pretty decent as a self-contained story though yeah 11:25 AM <~barredowl> yeah, 4514 is like, good as a self-contained thing 11:25 AM <@Gee0765> like you realise that the people listed in it are like, 150 years old 11:25 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:26 AM red3: yeah but prologues are displayed alongside the rest of the book 11:26 AM red3 True, but for me, the SCP should be good enough to stand alone as well 11:26 AM And this isnt a prologue, its an SCP 11:26 AM I might view a tale differently 11:26 AM <+cybersqyd> SharpEmbrace, I don't like the jargon here tbh 11:27 AM <@Gee0765> i mean my opinion on this is only how it is because I'm holding this scp to the purely arbitrary standard that scps should be self-contained stories 11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> SharpEmbrace, it feels too much? Like it makes this feel super dense and less interesting; which doesn't help when it's already not hugely interesting as a whole 11:27 AM DrMoned: Yes, it's an SCP, but it's also the prologue of the story. It's the one where most of the characters and the villain are introduced, where the threat is displayed, where the world is laid out to the reader. That same criticism would still apply if it was a tale describing some experiments and the anomaly itself. 11:27 AM <@Gee0765> and if you don't hold them to that standard 11:27 AM <@Gee0765> you could have a totally different opinion on this 11:28 AM For a long time I was wondering why SCP articles have to stand on their own. I think that, for the most part, they should. but if they're clearly labeled as PART of a greater whole, i'm willing to give a bit more lenience on such things 11:28 AM ^ 11:28 AM red3 True, but I wanted more of a story than this 11:28 AM tbh i don't think the characters are introduced super well here 11:28 AM Maybe it's because I wrote Legba's Stick to be part of something else and it doesn't really stand alone, but I am fine with some clearly labeled skips being part of a continuing/group narrative 11:28 AM its like the first paragraph of a prologue, rather than an entire prologue 11:28 AM or at least in any meaningful depth 11:29 AM what do i actually know about the two characters other than what their superpowers are 11:29 AM DrMoned: You're treating this like a collection of short stories, where each one is meant to be its own independent story which can be read in any order the reader wishes. It's not. It's more like a chapter of a novel, where each thing builds on the things that came before it. Again, it's like criticizing a prologue or the opening chapter of a book for not having a strict opening, middle, and conclusion. That's not the 11:29 AM point. 11:30 AM red3 I disagree, I think this could be part of a greater whole and still be satisfying. It just isnt 11:30 AM it introduces a few things, but not enough for me to really understand or get invested into any of them, before moving on 11:31 AM if this is a prologue i think it's a shitty prologue 11:31 AM it doesn't really want me to read more 11:31 AM <~barredowl> see, even as a prologue i don't know if this is particularly the best- yeah 11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> Does anyone have more to add or should we move on maybe? 11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> It feels, perhaps like we're circling a little 11:31 AM DrMoned: Again, you're treating it like a bunch of short stories. You can't invest a reader in a character in 500 words, it's just not possible. 11:31 AM cybersqyd: I wanted to touch on Sharp's points a bit, but we can move on if you'd like. 11:32 AM — +cybersqyd shrugs 11:32 AM red3 no, you cant. But you can not introduce a ton of tangents and not fully explore any of them at all 11:32 AM <+cybersqyd> I'm up for continuing, it just feels like we're getting repetitive 11:32 AM I mean, if this makes you want to read more that's valid, but I personally am not seeing that. 11:32 AM it feels like shotgunning parts of something greater 11:32 AM <~barredowl> i think this could like, continue for a bit longer, but i'll see if it just feels like we're going in circles 11:33 AM red3: what did you have to say about my points 11:33 AM red3 I like quite a few SCPs that are part of something greater, and lead on to other narratives. But this feels like it leans on the canon too much 11:34 AM without giving me the reason to read on that much 11:35 AM DrMoned: I guess I see that. I would've liked to see more world-building, but I think that this was meant to just give the reader a taste of the world before diving into one of the main points. Something as big as a world-ending anomaly needs to address a lot of points right off the bat so that the reader gets a taste of what the world and the story are going to be like. It takes a more broad look than something like 11:35 AM EoD, which focuses on a few characters' responses to the apocalypse. 11:35 AM <~barredowl> yeah; i guess in that regard it setting up a lot of things makes sense 11:35 AM red3 Yeah, I understand what it was trying to do, and liked most of it. I just think it ends a bit too soon with lots of loose ends 11:36 AM <@Gee0765> ok im gonna go eat now, i should be back soonish though 11:36 AM again, i don't think this is a powerful taste. like, i'm not really getting a strong sense of themes, characters, all that good stuff 11:36 AM It makes me ask questions, and want to read on which is good, but it does this a bit too much 11:36 AM <~barredowl> have fun and consume gee 11:36 AM Enjoy your food Gee 11:36 AM — SharpEmbrace eats gee 11:36 AM barredowl: done 11:36 AM <~barredowl> noooo 11:37 AM <~barredowl> alright, so do you think we should wrap up? any concluding thoughts? 11:37 AM Despite the flawas that all of you recognised in this, I do like this and therefore give it a medium to heavy +1 11:38 AM I like quite a lot of what it does, the jargon was fine imo. But it kinda petered out too soon 11:38 AM SharpEmbrace: I agree with you that the characters feel a bit underdeveloped, but I disagree on your thoughts on the ending and the jargon. Focusing on the latter point first, this has a lot more refreshing jargon than a lot of other articles because it uses more than just the 200 scientific-y words that most articles use to try and fit clinical tone. Therefore, it felt a lot better to read because it actually felt like 11:38 AM I was reading something new rather than just the same bundle of words being reused over and over again. On the former point, the ending that this uses -- setting up that the Foundation has to save whatever's left of humanity -- sets this up as a story which has a very large narrative that'll span the entire world. It's a matter of personal taste, but that hook worked really well on me. 11:38 AM <~barredowl> i think i might give this either a light upvote or a light downvote 11:38 AM <~barredowl> i'm uncertain 11:38 AM light downvote for me, but it might be just because I had a higher expectation of Cadaver from the rest of the stuff I have read of his 11:39 AM I don't find a statement of the story's massive scale to be a strong hook on its own. 11:39 AM <~barredowl> i quite enjoyed a lot of parts in this, and think it mostly neatly sets up things for the next chapter. 11:39 AM <~barredowl> but for above mentioned reasons, i'm tentative. 11:39 AM <~barredowl> huh, yeah 11:39 AM when did we start doing the "light downvote" thing? did i just miss when that happened 11:39 AM I guess its a measure of how much you dislike or like it :P 11:39 AM This is an upvote from me. The writing is good and it works very well for what it's trying to accomplish. I personally didn't like it as a standalone piece, but that's mainly just a problem with how it's displayed to the reader. 11:39 AM <+cybersqyd> owl has done it since the start, iirc 11:40 AM <~barredowl> yeah 11:40 AM <~barredowl> i'm a pioneer :3 11:40 AM Trend-setter. 11:40 AM didn't we like have a thing where we wouldn't say what our votes where at the beginning 11:40 AM Yo, am back. 11:41 AM SCP-3885 from cadaver did a much better job at setting up a narrative. So I based a lot of my views off how they did that red 11:41 AM <@Secretary_Helen> DrMoned: SCP-3885: The High-Octane Full-Throttle Adventures of the Exploding Zombie Gearheads (Rating: +254. Written 2 years ago By: CadaverCommander) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3885 11:41 AM or did we scrap that immediately 11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> I don't think we did? 11:41 AM — DrMoned shrugs 11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> we talked about doing it but I think decided not to 11:41 AM <~barredowl> hmm 11:41 AM <~barredowl> i'm not entirely sure 11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> uh anyway, I downvoted this for being a boring slog that I personally didn't enjoy really any aspect of 11:42 AM <~barredowl> we do have logs, so you can check those 11:42 AM pretty much same as cyber 11:42 AM <~barredowl> understandable 11:42 AM I'm gonna take my break early cause I need to get dinner and do some private business. Will be back in time for "The Shape of a Gun" :P 11:42 AM DrMoned: Yes, but the Joey Fucknuts series focused on one character, not an entire world. It's a hell of a lot easier to establish one town and a small caste of characters than it is to set up a world where humanity is being threatened by an anomaly which grants people magical powers. It's trying to set up two different narratives, so it uses two different styles. 11:42 AM I enjoyed parts, but didnt with others 11:43 AM I have to take an online class in twenty minutes, so I won't be able to read the next tale. 11:43 AM red3 indeed, but imo the character was setup in tales there. He didnt try to do character creation within the article there 11:43 AM <~barredowl> alright then. so shall we call a short break? get some snacks? sit back, relax? 11:43 AM He broke it into a more manageable chunk 11:43 AM I novoted because I like elements of it but I wasn't that big of a fan of this execution. I'm willing to suspend some stuff because it's the intro to a larger narrative, but this one just simply exists. It is a meh? ramp 11:44 AM So logically, with a bigger project, you should be even more careful with how you set it up 11:44 AM Malyce I am largely of the same opinion, although I dont novote much anymore :p 11:44 AM DrMoned: I don't see how that criticism applies here. This isn't the entire arc of the characters; they're just being introduced. 11:45 AM red3 but its another tangent tacked on imo 11:45 AM I'm only novoting because I agree that the overall canon is pretty damn good 11:45 AM Oh wait, my class starts an hour from now. Okay, I'll be able to stick around. 11:45 AM <~barredowl> okay, apologies; didn't realize we were sorta still discussing 11:46 AM We can move on if you need barred? 11:46 AM <~barredowl> nah, just want to make sure everyone's done before we call a five or so minute break 11:46 AM i have nothing to say i haven't already said 11:46 AM <~barredowl> yeah, me neither