# Pastebin q094bdZ6 11:18 AM <~barredowl> so, shall we get into our first impressions? 11:18 AM <+cybersqyd> hm 11:18 AM <+cybersqyd> i kinda like this but it feels...like it's missing something maybe? 11:19 AM <~barredowl> i really do like this, in particular the tone executed here 11:19 AM There's the bare bones of a story here, but since it abandons a lot of traditional storytelling elements for a more mysterious atmosphere, it doesn't intrigue me past the superficial "What's actually going on here?" question. 11:19 AM <~barredowl> for the most part i didn't spot any glaring missing details 11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah; it's a really nice tone 11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> it just...feels like it's not quite in service of anything? 11:19 AM Im slightly confused by this department of abnormalities. Like is it a foundation made department and doesnt contain anomlies well? (I wasnt here for the first meeting of the DoA so forgive me if im making a mistake) also this article was quite a good read, especially with the smaller anomalies 11:20 AM <+cybersqyd> the DoA is like...a foundation precursor that's often used to explore like, the darker sides of the Foundation 11:20 AM <+cybersqyd> or, perhaps, their failings 11:20 AM Not necessarily a precursor, but yes to everything else ^ 11:20 AM It's an inverted version of the Foundation. The Waluigi to the Foundation's Luigi, to give a weird comparison. 11:20 AM Ot 11:21 AM It 11:21 AM <~barredowl> it's like a shadow foundation 11:21 AM geez my spelling is horrid today 11:21 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah; it's not really a precursor per se so much as generally a sense of them like, being not as good at containment in some ways? 11:21 AM <~barredowl> i suppose 11:21 AM <~barredowl> this feels like a deeply inhumane foundation 11:21 AM <~barredowl> but i guess that's just the foundation 11:21 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:21 AM Righto. Again, i do like this article. It does show the more horrific side of the Foundation then in retrospect. I also love the Little Mister in the DoA's containment 11:22 AM The article is flawed, in my opinion. It sets up a lot to happen, and that's great and all, and its tone is excellent, but IMO its missing a very important aspect to make it work: it doesn't have a reason 11:22 AM <+cybersqyd> See. I kinda agree but it feels...like this is building up to something 11:22 AM <+cybersqyd> only it ends basically saying 'it's so horrific you can't even go there anymore' 11:22 AM ^ 11:22 AM Exactly! 11:23 AM <~barredowl> i think the main "reason" for all of this is, y'know, why does this place exist? why did it have to go, is there some sort of coverup going on? 11:23 AM <~barredowl> i'm very compelled by what was set down here. 11:23 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:23 AM <+cybersqyd> like it does an *excellent* job at escalating and being subtly unnerving 11:24 AM <+cybersqyd> and I think I like it even though the ending is disappointing 11:24 AM The tone is absolutely fantastic and you really have to wonder what happened 11:24 AM <~barredowl> the ending is a tiny bit disappointing, especially when compared to the other portions where it was like "all the doorknobs and all are gone" 11:25 AM Looking through the comments, I'm even more disappointed by this. I believe that most of the abnormalities listed are meant to be reinterpretations of classic SCPs, but this absolutely fails at the execution because it doesn't do anything more with their concepts besides reimagining them a little bit. 11:25 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:25 AM But then that's it, all the setup is for nothing, and yeah, you really have to wonder whats happening, but without some continuation, it comes off as blunt. 11:25 AM red3: yeah. 11:25 AM <+cybersqyd> red3: imo it's not so much about the anomalies being contained as it is how they are being contained 11:25 AM <~barredowl> i remember kaktus saying that they weren't strictly intended to be reinterpretations of classic skips, but that's authorial intent kicking in the door i guess 11:26 AM cybersqyd: I don't quite understand what you mean by that. 11:26 AM <+cybersqyd> red3: like, it's not really exploring the SCPs themselves so much as like, showing the mistreatment of them by the DoA 11:26 AM <~barredowl> this skip isn't about the anomalies themselves, but rather their situation/their environment 11:27 AM <~barredowl> is what i think cyber was getting at 11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:27 AM atmosphere. 11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> mm yeah 11:27 AM the piece is all about atmosphere. 11:27 AM I can see that, but again, this is almost entirely atmosphere with no depth to back it up. 11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah 11:27 AM I think, after hearing barred's view on this, it is very good at setting up how the Foundation could have been. Yes ethics committee and humanitarian stuff BUT this could have been a Foundation without morals or lack there of. I also enjoy that the seventh floor and perhaps the rest of the building is cut off. It could have been an O5 coming in to stop this whole thing from being discovered or that the DoA was using 11:27 AM another form of Containment to stop whatever was down below. Just thinking about the one that were peaceful that could be down is actually quite dark now I think about it 11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, oh yeah, I mean, I agree 11:28 AM And from the few abnormalities which are strictly driving the story forward, there's no danger here since I only pictured a big bad scary monster chasing a researcher down the floors. Maybe they were drawn to the Apollyon's Crown in order to gain power, but it's just so generic that I feel no horror when I realized what the story was talking about. 11:28 AM BlueJones: that's a good interpretation, I mostly agree. 11:28 AM red3: yup. 11:29 AM <+cybersqyd> red3: I don't think there's meant to be danger though? Like, it's not really meant to be horror in the sense of 'will we survive' but 'what have we done' 11:29 AM If there were a progression in floors, that could imply something about the 7th or further floors, but there isn't, so it's just a bunch of anomalies in a dilapidated site. 11:29 AM <~barredowl> i was a little unenthused by the humanoids 11:29 AM <~barredowl> seemed a little too corporeal for my tastes 11:30 AM <+cybersqyd> oh? 11:30 AM <~barredowl> because from my experience, what i like about doa is the environment, not the actual thing 11:30 AM <~barredowl> saying "oh there's a human in there and they're standing in the corner" kinda ruins my immersion 11:31 AM cybersqyd: Again, I don't see that at all. There's nothing here that indicates regret or even that the DoA did anything wrong to cause this situation besides maybe testing with the monster and one of them getting killed, hence the bones in the containment chamber. The note before the abnormalities feels more casual than it does frightening and regretful. 11:31 AM barredowl: actually, i tend to agree. 11:32 AM This piece in my eyes is that none of the anomalies didn't seem ill-intent. They all seemed very passive and if they were powerful, they could have escaped at any time (I mean, think of all the things we write to keep a mundane item in line) so now I think about it, its doing a really good job of showing that they weren't the monsters but rather the people in charge of the DoA. And as barred had said, its sparking 11:32 AM intrigue within me to want to read more and discover more about the DoA 11:32 AM <+cybersqyd> red3: right and that's why it works imo: the DoA is callous and uncaring here. And the Foundation looks at this dispassionately to emphasise that lack of care. 11:32 AM Having living humanoids upsets me because it feels as though the Foundation stumbled upon something that's still happening, as though there were a narrative. If they were dead, it would be more effective since they would be setpieces in a dilapidated site, helping us to wonder "what happened?" 11:32 AM <+cybersqyd> barredowl, yeah I can see that 11:33 AM <~barredowl> the best doa pieces really pull off that "absence" feel 11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> mm yeah 11:33 AM cybersqyd: Right, but there's a line when being uncaring turns into just being boring. Simply having a humanoid in a containment cell isn't enough to evoke an emotional reaction, there has to be more here besides the idea that putting anomalous humans in containment is a morally gray idea. 11:33 AM <~barredowl> which is, incidentally, one of my favorite things in horror skips like that 11:34 AM <+cybersqyd> red3: Yeah; I get that. This feels like it's trying to emphasise how...barren their containment is to convey that but it definitely could do more, I think. 11:34 AM red3: exactly that. 11:34 AM Greyve: In that regard, I'm guessing that's why the O5 put a lock on the rest of the article: Its cause its something that's currrently going on. Another thing that I think is why I love it so much, cause it has living humanoids inside what I can only guess is a standard holding cell 11:35 AM hmm. interesting perspective. 11:35 AM I always thought it was like they were trying to keep the past hidden. 11:35 AM <~barredowl> okay, stick with me here 11:35 AM <+cybersqyd> Yeah; I think that's partially why they're hiding it. Because it isn't *just* the past 11:35 AM <~barredowl> this may be a huge-ass stretch 11:35 AM Greyve: I actually disagree with that a little bit since it implies that something like a rampage occurred here, with random people being murdered left and right. This feels a bit more... calculated of an incident. Like a single researcher being chased by a single anomaly while everything else remains untouched. It maintains the tone of the anomalies being abandoned somewhat, both by the DoA and the monster itself. 11:36 AM Perhaps that's why the elevator doesn't go beyond the seventh floor because there are still people working beyond doing unknown horrors to anomalies (I am speculating of course) 11:36 AM <~barredowl> ... 11:36 AM <~barredowl> okay i forgot my point lol 11:36 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, why do you think there's someone being chased by an anomaly here? 11:36 AM Rip. 11:36 AM i actually dislike the idea that there are still people in there 11:37 AM i prefer a view of the DoA as a dilapidated, dark past that the O5 doesn't want to remember 11:37 AM But that's my prespective. 11:37 AM <~barredowl> that's my vision too greyve 11:37 AM Greyve: Mhm, I concede that it is like five times more interesting 11:38 AM — Greyve shrug 11:38 AM <~barredowl> i still do very much like this piece despite the flaws of the aforementioned points, but i feel its biggest weaknesses is where it strays away from that empty and bleak tone 11:38 AM <~barredowl> what with the humanoids 11:39 AM cybersqyd: Maybe not exactly something being chased by an anomaly, but an anomaly chasing something. Room Four on Level 1 housed an apparently dangerous creature with large claws which killed something, Room Two on Level 3 was interacted with by a human subject, and Room Four on Level 6 has scratch marks on it, coinciding with the original description of the monster. It's the only consistent narrative thread I could 11:39 AM find in this, even cutting out Room Two on Level 3. 11:39 AM OK, I'm back! 11:39 AM <~barredowl> wb 11:39 AM i like it for its strengths: excellent tone and really makes you wonder. But that's the extent to which I think it's a good piece. 11:39 AM <~barredowl> yeah 11:40 AM <~barredowl> i do agree that in some aspects this is dearly lacking 11:40 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, yeah I can see that; I don't think it was someone being chased perhaps so much as an anomaly escaping in the past 11:40 AM So, about the skip... it looks like a sort of a mix between an hotel and a curiosity cabinet, for what I understand of it. 11:40 AM barredowl: Counter-arguement, didn't you say this was the first time DoA was refrenced or it is entirely about the Department? it is quite common for readers to look at one article of this and go "OH damn, didn't know it was this good" and then read the first one and go "This is lacking what I first read" if that makes sense (forgive me for stepping out of line here) 11:40 AM Are you saying that this anomaly escaped in the past, but the facility still operated after it? Because my thoughts were that its containment breach directly caused the facility to become abandoned. 11:41 AM Was pretty good, but at the end, I was like that "Oh, it's already done?". 11:41 AM For being short. 11:41 AM <~barredowl> BlueJones: well yeah 11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, hm. i'd argue the anomaly escaped after the facility was abandoned tbh 11:41 AM <~barredowl> but there are some aspects which could maybe do with retouching? 11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, there's no signs of damage except to the containment chambers, which implies the only things left of interest where them 11:41 AM gtg i may come back in time tho 11:42 AM <~barredowl> gb greyve 11:43 AM Mhm true owl but perhaps the authors didn't have time to go back and refine the original to what an average reader would expect? Again, I am speculating 11:43 AM <~barredowl> yeah 11:43 AM <~barredowl> i should note here, the note in the middle was actually a fairly late addition 11:43 AM — Pighead take internal notes 11:43 AM <~barredowl> it was added i think a month or two ago 11:43 AM You mean the clipboard? 11:43 AM <~barredowl> yeah 11:43 AM <+cybersqyd> it was last edited <50 days ago; and it's not like djkaktus/croq are particularly new writers? 11:44 AM cybersqyd: I just don't see how I could logically come to that conclusion. There's no real sense of time here besides the note, which doesn't reveal whether this took place before or after the breach. And I imagined that the Apollyon's Crown has a certain alluring aspect to it, which is why the anomaly ignored the rest of the containment chambers and only scratched at that door. 11:44 AM <+cybersqyd> even in 2018 tbh 11:45 AM <~barredowl> alright, so you think this a good point to wrap up and say our final thoughts? 11:46 AM For my final thought, I don't like this enough to upvote it. Other pieces emphasized those loose narrative threads better like 3220 and the next article we will read today, and don't have all the narrative fluff that this does by including a bunch of anomalies which don't further the story. The atmosphere here accomplishes its goal, but is weighed down by the lack of any emotional ties which make me feel anything other 11:46 AM than pure apathy. I honestly think that this is DoA at its worst, since it's a very specific type of article which can only accomplish a few goals, so cutting to the chase is essential in making a good article. This tries to do too much with too little. 11:46 AM It was good, but not enough, so same, I will novote. 11:46 AM <+cybersqyd> I...think this does just about enough for an upvote but I do agree that it's not as good as a lot of other DoA stuff is 11:46 AM (I come at the end, watch me, Mom, I'm super useful to the conversation! xD) 11:47 AM <~barredowl> yeah i think this is a medium upvote for me 11:47 AM <+cybersqyd> It's...just an upvote for me 11:47 AM <~barredowl> it is by no means as good as some of the DoA stuff i've seen around 11:47 AM In short: I love this article and it sparks the right but dark questions that could potentially explore of what the DoA can be and will be. But as some say it does lack content to improve this article further. I will upvote purely cause my mind is bringing up my imagination to possible new heights or lows, depending on how dark they could have been 11:48 AM I'm debating whether I should keep my downvote or switch it to a novote... I'm not sure how Roget's rule would be helpful here other than just maintaining principle. 11:49 AM <~barredowl> do what ya want 11:49 AM <~barredowl> i'm not your mom