# Pastebin lIvYF1ND
1:53 PM <~barredowl> alright, so let's get into the skip which launched a thousand memes.
1:53 PM <~barredowl> let's get this started.
1:53 PM <~barredowl> discussion time
1:53 PM <~barredowl> SCP-096
1:53 PM <@Secretary_Helen> barredowl: SCP-096: The "Shy Guy" (Rating: +2459. Written 10 years ago By: Dr Dan) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-096
1:53 PM <~barredowl> linked for posterity
1:54 PM <carolynn> back
1:54 PM <+cybersqyd> The use of logs here is fascinating
1:54 PM <~barredowl> i will note here, there is a nice progression to the description that i really like. it manages to fit in a lot of information in a small amount of time
1:55 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
1:55 PM <~barredowl> there's a cool epistolary feel to the incident log
1:55 PM <~barredowl> and it feels very... cinematic
1:55 PM <~barredowl> in a way
1:55 PM <@Calibri_Bold> ^
1:55 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah. It kinda feels...a tad too much like it was designed to be a video imo
1:55 PM <red3> The Incident Log feels like a separate story that isn't really meant to be read alongside the original article, but I like it. Document 096-1 I think is straight garbage, though.
1:56 PM <~barredowl> eh, i got a good image in my head for what i was reading.
1:56 PM <+cybersqyd> I think it's well written but completely inconsequential?
1:56 PM <~barredowl> document 096-1 really feels out of place, and i'm not sure how i feel about it
1:56 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
1:56 PM <~barredowl> it ends in a pretty weird way, i would say
1:56 PM <~barredowl> it feels like it was going to build into something but just limply stumbles into the end?
1:56 PM <+cybersqyd> mm
1:56 PM <+cybersqyd> it just kinda, does what you expect?
1:57 PM <+cybersqyd> it's weird cos it was written at the same time as the first part, and the incident was written like, 6 months later
1:57 PM <+cybersqyd> or well, at least, it was posted at the same time
1:57 PM <red3> It hits almost every pet peeve for an addendum log: restating the description of the anomaly, restating the abilities of the anomaly, doesn't add any characterization to the anomaly or the other characters, and doesn't even include a picture. If you didn't read it, you would still have the same experience reading the original article.
1:57 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
1:58 PM <+cybersqyd> it definitely feels like it doesn't really *do* anything
1:58 PM <~barredowl> it doesn't do anything the incident/description didn't elaborate on before
1:58 PM <+cybersqyd> but I think it's some nice like, world-building?
1:58 PM <~barredowl> and coupled with the interview log at the end, idk if it's really that necessary
1:58 PM <+cybersqyd> It feels like the kind of unrelated file you'd see in like, an actual report on 096 and not a story about it
1:58 PM <red3> I find almost nothing worth taking away from the log besides the cool factor of knowing that 096 can dive really deep into the ocean.
1:58 PM <carolynn> i think it survives because it’s a separate link away from the original article; nowadays folks would use collapsibles, which are more evidently part of the actual pieces
1:58 PM <~barredowl> it does build the world, yes
1:59 PM <carolynn> but this feels more like an associated tale
1:59 PM <carolynn> well
1:59 PM <carolynn> it straddles the line
1:59 PM <red3> Going back to the original article though, there are some great sprinkles of characterization in the Description.
1:59 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
1:59 PM <carolynn> it’s part of the original if you like it; not part of the scp if you don’t
1:59 PM <~barredowl> i will admit, the description had a nice pace going for it
1:59 PM <+cybersqyd> The description is...a little too 'note-y' for my liking but I think it's generally good
2:00 PM <~barredowl> i think the pressure sensors are kinda clever
2:00 PM <red3> The fact that it describes how 096 is malnourished, how 096 is normally "extremely docile", and the fact that it has to regain its composure after killing someone.
2:00 PM <~barredowl> but otherwise, eh?
2:00 PM <red3> cybersqyd: What do you mean by that?
2:00 PM <+cybersqyd> I mean, you have stuff like: "Skin is mostly devoid of pigmentation, with no sign of any body hair." which feels a bit like a sentence fragment
2:00 PM <~barredowl> i think what cyber meant was that it felt like it would note one characteristic of the anomaly and then move on very quickly
2:00 PM <~barredowl> very bullet pointy
2:00 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:01 PM <~barredowl> but i think it worked fairly well here
2:01 PM <~barredowl> i didn't really have much of a problem with it
2:01 PM <carolynn> which. makes it feel very moto42 imo
2:01 PM <carolynn> more beauracratic and terse which i find ok
2:01 PM <~barredowl> it does recreate that moto42 feel
2:01 PM <red3> You can't really assign a style of writing to a specific author, but I see what you mean.
2:01 PM <~barredowl> it feels less so like a document you weren't supposed to stumble upon than 087, i will note
2:01 PM <carolynn> yeah agreed.
2:01 PM <~barredowl> it's starting to adopt that "you are part of the foundation, reader" look
2:02 PM <carolynn> it doesn’t balance the line nearly as well
2:02 PM <~barredowl> especially with this line
2:02 PM <~barredowl> > Any and all photos, video, or recordings of SCP-096's likeness are strictly forbidden without approval from Dr. ███ and O5-█.
2:02 PM <~barredowl> like, in a subtle way it sorta involves you as a researcher?
2:02 PM <~barredowl> or as a part of the foundation
2:02 PM <carolynn> also why tf is that redacted
2:02 PM <~barredowl> yeah, it's a little weird.
2:03 PM <red3> Yeah, there are almost no mentions of the Foundation within 087's main file, only being included in the exploration logs.
2:03 PM <~barredowl> i thought it was pretty clear that Dr. triple-blackbox is Dr. Dan?
2:03 PM <carolynn> how are you supposed to get approval from someone you’re not allowed to know the name of?
2:03 PM <carolynn> barredowl: nice catch, that completely flew over my head
2:03 PM <~barredowl> cause he's the skip handler and all
2:03 PM <~barredowl> and he asks for the termination of 096 at the end of the main document and all, triple-blackbox
2:04 PM <carolynn> right.
2:04 PM <+cybersqyd> I think it's the kinda redaction that works if you assume this was prepared for someone who doesn't need to get approval?
2:04 PM <carolynn> 096 to me feels very much like
2:04 PM <+cybersqyd> like, broken masquerade/government overview feel
2:04 PM <red3> Yeah, and if you were on the research team of 096, you'd likely already know who to talk to. I don't know why the O5 is redacted though. The O5 titles are literally meant to be false names to protect the identities of the people anyway.
2:04 PM <~barredowl> speaking of the interview, does anyone have anything to note about that
2:04 PM <~barredowl> ?
2:04 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:04 PM <carolynn> the one at the end of the piece or the standalone article?
2:04 PM <+cybersqyd> It feels...kinda lolfoundation-y?
2:05 PM <~barredowl> i felt like the captain guy was characterized way too heavily
2:05 PM <+cybersqyd> assuming you mean the one at the end
2:05 PM <red3> It has a very different feel than 087 because there's not a lot of mystery. You know what caused the incident and you can almost tell what's gonna happen before it does.
2:05 PM <~barredowl> yeah, at the end of the main document
2:05 PM <carolynn> didn’t add much to me
2:05 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah. it just feels...bland?
2:05 PM <~barredowl> he was just throwing some captainy phrase very frequently and idk
2:05 PM <~barredowl> it didn't really add anything for me, personally.
2:05 PM <~barredowl> so
2:05 PM <+cybersqyd> I think it'd work better if I'd read it before Incident 096-1-A
2:05 PM <~barredowl> should we start talking about the incident?
2:05 PM <~barredowl> incident log?
2:06 PM <red3> I added a lot for me. It made 096 feel more real, like it actually had an impact rather than just being a cool gimmick.
2:06 PM <red3> *It
2:06 PM <~barredowl> cause that's what most of this skip is
2:06 PM <red3> I can't type at all today.
2:06 PM <~barredowl> 096-1-a really did a great job of establishing the implications of the anomaly
2:06 PM <+cybersqyd> red3, The interview? or the incident?
2:06 PM <~barredowl> incident log
2:06 PM <red3> The interview.
2:06 PM <carolynn> incident 096 is the bigger of two things that make this scp, for all its faults, stand the test of time
2:06 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:07 PM <~barredowl> like, disregarding all the "four fucking pixels" memes, i think that is a really interesting quirk to this anomaly, how there are god-knows-how-many ticking time bombs out there, waiting to be looked at
2:07 PM <carolynn> the first thing is that it’s like. “thing what kills you” and it’s not novel now, but back then the thought that these things could be real shit that government organizations had to mop up was quite interesting
2:07 PM <carolynn> and this is a particularly classic “thing what kills you”
2:08 PM <~barredowl> yeah
2:08 PM <carolynn> because it sets an example of like. “you wanna know what shit the foundation deals with? look at 096’
2:08 PM <~barredowl> i will say, the ending of the incident log kinda fell flat for me
2:08 PM <red3> It feels a bit too big and epic for my tastes, but I could definitely see how that type of story could resonate with a lot of readers.
2:08 PM <~barredowl> because it felt like it was building up to something
2:08 PM <~barredowl> and it just... fizzles out?
2:08 PM <~barredowl> it was a very grand-feeling incident log
2:08 PM <+cybersqyd> Yeah; I see what you mean red3
2:09 PM <carolynn> i actually disagree!
2:09 PM <~barredowl> that was close to taking my immersion out of it
2:09 PM <~barredowl> but it's a very vivid incident log
2:09 PM <red3> Yeah, a lot of it was spent fixing up plot holes rather than adding to the story.
2:09 PM <red3> carolynn: With it being too grand?
2:09 PM <+cybersqyd> I didn't like the portrayal of the Foundation at times in it; specifically the bit where the MTF are like, rounding up a village
2:09 PM <~barredowl> examples of when it was trying to fix up plot holes?
2:10 PM <+cybersqyd> But then, I don't think we're meant to like 'em
2:10 PM <carolynn> no with the ending falling flat. like as a standalone piece it’s like “well ok.” but it’s important because it demonstrates the hypothetical lengths the foundation would go to to preserve normalcy
2:10 PM <carolynn> or even specific characters
2:10 PM <@Calibri_Bold> That's a fair argument.
2:10 PM <red3> I can see that.
2:11 PM <~barredowl> yeah, it's really clear in hammering home that message, i feel
2:11 PM <carolynn> it sets a precedent for “what shit would the foundation do to protect the greater good?”
2:11 PM <red3> It's very focused on the internals of the Foundation, though, so maybe it would work better if it focused more on the media and the outside world.
2:11 PM <carolynn> similar to 231 in that aspect
2:12 PM <+cybersqyd> I think it makes sense that it's very internally focussed; at least, in that that's what the Foundation are mostly concerned with
2:12 PM <~barredowl> i will add, dr. oleksei's suicide was kinda strange and i think not the best way to convey how distressing it is to deal with 096?
2:12 PM <~barredowl> yeah, i think it works better when looking at the foundation's internal work
2:13 PM <~barredowl> but eh
2:13 PM <red3> It's meant to add some gravity to 096 by showing that it killed a child, but it feels very cheap and forced.
2:14 PM <~barredowl> oh, not oleksei's, my bad
2:14 PM <~barredowl> the sgt.'s
2:14 PM <~barredowl> hmm.
2:14 PM <red3> Like when SCPs try to get some shock value by putting it in an environment where it would harm children, it's very difficult to pull off without seeming like the author is just trying to throw punches for no reason.
2:14 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:14 PM <red3> Something like 1307
2:14 PM <red3> SCP-1307
2:14 PM <@Secretary_Helen> red3: SCP-1307: The Person Sharpener (Rating: +139. Written 7 years ago By: Paul Henderson) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-1307
2:15 PM <~barredowl> there were some parts where it felt like the author was trying to get a cheap punch in, but for the most part i felt like the threat of 096 was well justified?
2:16 PM <~barredowl> like i said before, i thought that looking at just how hard it is to contain 096 once it's out (in terms of making sure people don't see it) was interesting.
2:16 PM <red3> And what's weird is that I found the interview log to do the job of making 096 seem monstrous a lot better.
2:16 PM <red3> I thought of a kinda cool analogy, so bear with me for a second.
2:16 PM — +cybersqyd bears
2:16 PM — ~barredowl bears with red3
2:17 PM <red3> It's like if the Foundation was a police station and they were investigating a set of very horrific and grizzly murders. The interview log feels like a person recounting an incident where the murderer mutilated their friend right in front of their face, while the Incident Log feels like a summary of the entire investigation with banter from the investigators here and then.
2:17 PM — DrMoned bears too as it seems fun
2:17 PM <~barredowl> i do think the interview was a lot clearer in making 096 more monstrous
2:18 PM <~barredowl> more direct, i should say
2:18 PM <~barredowl> hmm, that's interesting
2:18 PM <red3> It has a cold, almost cruel air to it. Like someone recounting their worst traumas.
2:18 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:18 PM <carolynn> i can hear that
2:18 PM <~barredowl> in that way, i think you could argue that the interview does some job at conveying how monstrous 096 is
2:19 PM <~barredowl> huh.
2:19 PM <~barredowl> anybody else have anything to add?
2:20 PM <carolynn> this is gonna be useful in my kanon essay lmfao
2:20 PM <+cybersqyd> kanon essay?
2:20 PM <red3> I hope I'm not overshadowing anybody else's points or filling up their screen. I'm on a desktop right now, so tell me if my messages are just filling up your entire screen.
2:20 PM <~barredowl> carolynn: hopefully
2:20 PM <carolynn> red3: don't worry abt it
2:20 PM <+cybersqyd> red3, nah you're doing great
2:20 PM <~barredowl> red3: you're really adding to the discussion
2:20 PM <+cybersqyd> you have good insights and stuff :3
2:21 PM <red3> Aww, thanks.
2:21 PM <red3> I have one or two more points I'd like to add if we have time.
2:21 PM <~barredowl> anyway, i think we might end it here if everybody doesn't know what to follow up with
2:21 PM <+cybersqyd> go for it
2:21 PM <~barredowl> red3: sure thing
2:21 PM <carolynn> cybersqyd: tell ya in a sec
2:22 PM <red3> I really love how this article executes the interview log, and it's especially difficult because in this scenario it's just one character relaying information to another character. In those cases, the author has to balance both making the character human enough to not feel boring, but also robotic enough that they actually get the point across without filling up their dialogue with expletives and emotional statements.
2:23 PM <~barredowl> you know, previously i was saying the interview felt very extraneous, but i think that could be a good point in its favor
2:23 PM <~barredowl> it's kinda strange that it was placed after the reader was presumably supposed to read the incident log
2:24 PM <~barredowl> cause it's kind of a limp ending compared to the incident log
2:24 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah; I think it'd lead into the incident log really nicely
2:24 PM <red3> That's true.
2:24 PM <~barredowl> especially with dr. triple-blackbox (i assume dr. dan) making a request for termination, and then you go into an incident log
2:25 PM <carolynn> well the incident log was written about a year later. i assume the ordering wasn't entirely planned
2:25 PM <~barredowl> hmm, yeah
2:25 PM <+cybersqyd> I guess?
2:25 PM <+cybersqyd> On the flip side, there'd have been room to like, add the incident log after the interview?
2:25 PM → BlueJones joined (uid356239@synIRC-5103E6D.tooting.irccloud.com)
2:26 PM <~barredowl> but still, even if it was slotted in later, i still think the article could have better led into the incident log?
2:26 PM <~barredowl> oh hi bluejones
2:26 PM <red3> This leans more into making the Captain robotic, but it has some nice embellishes like swearing and using unclinical language to add to their character. It draws enough attention to itself to make the reader care about what the Captain is saying, which has the added effect of avoiding the problems with the interviewer just asking a bunch of questions.
2:26 PM <~barredowl> we're in the middle of the 096 discussion :(
2:26 PM <@Calibri_Bold> Honestly, they could have just mentioned that the termination was authorized after the interview.
2:26 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:26 PM <~barredowl> i do think the characterization for the captain was a little too heavy at times, to be honest
2:26 PM <red3> In a lot of modern articles, people focus a lot on making the interviewee empathetic to the reader to the point that they start noticing how the interviewer has absolutely no character.
2:27 PM <red3> barredowl: Right, but you noticed that the characterization was too heavy for the Captain, rather than the characterization being too lacking on the interviewer. That's the point of it.
2:27 PM <~barredowl> huh
2:27 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah, it does a good job of making the almost complete non-presence of Dr. Dan feel irrelevant
2:28 PM <red3> The interviewer isn't really meant to be a character. They're a plot device in order to drive the story, which is the events that the Captain is describing, go forward fluidly. It was also used a lot in the 087 exploration logs.
2:28 PM <~barredowl> that's interestin
2:28 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
2:28 PM <~barredowl> *interesting
2:28 PM <red3> That's why it's now a trope to blackbox the name of the interviewer. It was used by classic articles in order to give that effect, but newer authors took that and just used it willy-nilly, which completely ruined the effect.
2:28 PM <~barredowl> i do think the doctor in 087 was a little more prevalent and active in the logs than the doctor in 096 for the interview log was
2:28 PM <red3> But I'm rambling at this point.
2:30 PM <~barredowl> no, you're fine
2:30 PM <~barredowl> so, i think that does it for the discussion. any final-final impressions?
2:32 PM <red3> Great use of information by both articles, especially with 087. The way that 096 is characterized makes it feel real, which adds to its tone of past horrors still affecting people. Both are great articles that deserve an upvote.
2:32 PM <~barredowl> i overall thought this was a generally enjoyable read. while there were some parts where i think the author could have done something more interesting or perhaps remove, but overall very nice article.
2:32 PM <~barredowl> red3: my sentiment exactly.
2:32 PM <+cybersqyd> It definitely feels weaker to me than 087 does
2:33 PM <+cybersqyd> But I think it's still generally okay
2:33 PM <~barredowl> i would say so too, yeah, to some extent
2:33 PM <~barredowl> all in all, 096 got an upvote from me. surprisingly good.
2:35 PM <+cybersqyd> As a whole, it's an upvote; the incident log is good, the actual 096 file is...fine and the document is probably a downdoot
2:36 PM <~barredowl> yeah, i'm not too enthusiastic with the document
2:36 PM <~barredowl> but the other two i think are warranted an upvote in my books
2:36 PM <~barredowl> alright
2:36 PM <+cybersqyd> :3