# Pastebin lAB7XV5V [2018-10-11 18:50:24] Hiya [2018-10-11 18:50:35] o/ [2018-10-11 18:50:39] So the three aspects of the ogre shaman in question are Build, Community, and Civilization [2018-10-11 18:51:03] So we're thinking of leaning away from fire blast ogre magic and into more traditional esoterics. [2018-10-11 18:51:09] and I'm wondering if those esoterics are possible for ogre magic [2018-10-11 18:52:11] Hmmm. Hard to line that up with my mental picture. I can sorta see build as a thing if you're like, leg-sweeping as part of a sequence, and you create a short wall? [2018-10-11 18:52:17] I've got strong Execution and Research, Supreme Family, and low Schools, Puissance and Longevity. [2018-10-11 18:52:19] The idea of the family is one more about making things possible, enhancing and reinforcing things, or taming them, to allow for effective practices. Building on what exists, establishing/utilizing a community, civilizing or taming others. [2018-10-11 18:52:52] Hard to reconcile those things with 'conflict'. [2018-10-11 18:53:45] I feel like if you wanted to do that, you'd probably go for shamanism. [2018-10-11 18:53:54] ah [2018-10-11 18:54:02] That's why I want to know if esoteric ritual dances fit into the practice. I don't mind giving up my combat potential. [2018-10-11 18:55:07] If GM is okay with it, go with it, but part of the reason things are broken up into categories is so that each person is approaching things from a different angle. Means if something really needs getting done, players have to cooperate or tap one another as resources. If the GM is okay with two people covering the same bases, then sure, go to the grayest end of the gray area. [2018-10-11 18:55:22] But, if Building, Civilization, Community don't work for Ogre Magi, what could I do instead that would leave me room for imagination and drawing outside the lines? [2018-10-11 18:56:48] *-But [2018-10-11 18:57:15] As the GM I'm fine with it, it was more trying to figure out whether the conflict heavy nature of Ogre Magi would be possible with such a passive/noncombative specialty as this, or if they're too opposed to function well. [2018-10-11 18:57:45] I could see something more like... Rise/ruin, Civic/incivility, bonds/breakup, an ogre mage practitioner who acts kinda karmic and steals people's fortunes. Not punching someone in the bank account, but a strike that wounds their ties to their finances, while stealing it for themselves... [2018-10-11 18:58:29] Could even break things up into the 'touch of death' sequence of touches or poses/motions leading up to that point of contact, for something subtle... that still requires being face to face with someone and having to make that contact. [2018-10-11 18:59:06] So disruptive effects that drain and inhibit the victims rather than outright combat or damage. [2018-10-11 18:59:15] As one option. [2018-10-11 18:59:16] Hmmm [2018-10-11 19:00:40] Could lean into the 'rain dance' style approach, where you're capable of performing the rituals or dances, but it's secondary, flawed, or it has a demesnes like 'call' to ones enemies, inviting combat or contest. [2018-10-11 19:00:53] At which point you'd want to have studied up on some options so that you win that fight. [2018-10-11 19:02:48] Could the rituals or dance be inclusive of all, friend and foe, rather than just foe? A way to build on community ties rather than being limited to inviting conflict outright? Or is that "call to all" not really possible in the same way? [2018-10-11 19:03:21] The idea is a group of community builder ritual dancers. [2018-10-11 19:03:59] Move in to the community? They come over and dance with you. [2018-10-11 19:04:16] Have a baby? They come dance with you. [2018-10-11 19:04:20] The southern family stereotype, where they bring food to all, support neighbors during hard times, and just in general try to make a community out of a bunch of people because its the right thing to do. [2018-10-11 19:04:32] Build a house? They come dance with you. [2018-10-11 19:04:51] By this approach I descripe, you'd do a ritual of building, which helps one area of your community but as part of that, you draw the attention of local, opposed Others. This might even have a sweeping, cumulative effect where goblins might interfere or challenge, or gravitate toward parts of the city where the ritual wasn't conducted. [2018-10-11 19:04:54] *describe [2018-10-11 19:05:07] I like that. [2018-10-11 19:05:49] So they'd come from out of town, and migrate from the area the ritual was aimed at to the outer reaches of the city. Raising yourself up while lowering others. And every time it's conducted, free-range goblins from the next city over might gravitate closer and closer, until something inevitably happens. But by then, you're fully secure. [2018-10-11 19:06:01] It's possible the goblins would challenge you [2018-10-11 19:06:06] Could be non-goblin spirits or powers. [2018-10-11 19:06:09] Fairy godmothers who aren't invited to the dance get offended and give curses. [2018-10-11 19:08:02] Others who find that they have less and less room come to war upon the family. [2018-10-11 19:08:13] That helps to make an interesting relationship with the local lord, to have goblins [2018-10-11 19:08:27] I do like this setup [2018-10-11 19:09:07] Could be non-goblins too. Could affect spiritual/echo balances. Unhappy ghosts gather together or build up to a singular megageist, challenge, then if the dance is won, they dissipate to the other areas. [2018-10-11 19:09:37] Does it have to be zero-sum? [2018-10-11 19:10:33] There's always a price. [2018-10-11 19:11:14] Right [2018-10-11 19:11:19] If you invest something else into the dance, it might mean less net negativity elsewhere. [2018-10-11 19:12:03] Couldn't the price be bloodily destroying the challengers? Kill all goblin challengers, purify all ghosts? [2018-10-11 19:12:27] (Can't do anything about fairy godmothers.) [2018-10-11 19:13:20] Yeah, that could factor in. But from a storytelling perspective, it's useful if there are other consequences and if it's not all neat and tidy. Things are rarely neat & tidy in general. [2018-10-11 19:13:46] I have some ideas of how adverse they can be [2018-10-11 19:14:07] This helps a lot, so ty Bow [2018-10-11 19:14:26] Would adding in the gen pop to the dance make it stronger? Dance with the whole community, not just the practitioners? [2018-10-11 19:14:48] Big party instead of private dances. [2018-10-11 19:14:53] I'm put in the mind of maypoles [2018-10-11 19:15:09] Chinese parades. [2018-10-11 19:17:54] Okay, so if the territory claim dance is the Family's main claim to fame, what other rituals would they have, and what would a single dancer with high execution but low power be able to do? [2018-10-11 19:29:17] I'm not saying territory claim. You could do any sort of thing that influences the area. It'd just draw people in to challenge or contest it as the demesnes does. [2018-10-11 19:29:24] It's essentially a ritual and the ritual can be interrupted. [2018-10-11 19:33:13] And may even invite that interruption. [2018-10-11 19:36:18] I see [2018-10-11 19:36:32] Thanks for this, Wibbles [2018-10-11 19:57:59] → gryphon joined (gryphon@net-fqu.kpc.117.38.IP) [2018-10-11 19:58:04] ← gryphon left (gryphon@net-fqu.kpc.117.38.IP): [2018-10-11 20:16:11] Sorry, was busy for a bit. [2018-10-11 20:16:47] Thanks, 'bow. [2018-10-11 20:17:01] Forgery, do you have any thoughts for other spells? [2018-10-11 20:18:48] I've thought of dance moves for spreading the fog, doing the Welcome Dance. [2018-10-11 20:19:23] And these are big rituals, we might want to think of small moves. [2018-10-11 20:25:58] Am at work atm, will give it some thought and msg you in about 3-5 hours? [2018-10-11 20:29:02] Sure [2018-10-11 20:29:39] I might be asleep, so if I'm not present, use the $tell command