# Pastebin fiUvHHRD
AngelToday at 16:56
@RavensDagger
Listen. As one human being to what I hope is another
RavensDaggerToday at 16:56
Beep boop
AngelToday at 16:56
You don't get to decide who has the right to feel targetted by what
RavensDaggerToday at 16:56
But yeah, I'm listening
I wouldn't try to make that kind of decision either
AngelToday at 16:56
Except you did.
RavensDaggerToday at 16:57
But I'm not going to go around and be offended on another person's behalf
AngelToday at 16:57
No, but you decided someone had no reason to feel targetted.
Do you really know them that well?
That you can decide that for them?
Despite clear evidence to the contrary?
Blue RoseToday at 16:57
>to what I hope is another
the joke about the French goes here
RavensDaggerToday at 16:59
Someone being offended by something isn't enough to move me very much; I don't have enough empathy going around for that kind of thing. And even if it did, what sort of action would you have wanted me to take? Apologise for laughing at a joke?
AngelToday at 17:01
I don't know. Some basic human decency regarding how you've clearly made someone upset, and continue to do so, topped with 'deal with it lol', maybe? But, time and time again, you've shown you can't understand that.
Do you expect people to just open up about everything that can be used to target them, or make them feel targeted?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:02
Exactly!
AngelToday at 17:02
To honest, before all the doubling down, just an actual apology would have been nice.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:02
How can I know what might offend someone?
AngelToday at 17:02
I think it was made pretty fucking clear pretty fucking quickly.
You may not know what might offend someone, but when you do, you cut that shit out.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:03
oh are we doing this again
RavensDaggerToday at 17:03
What should I do? Bottle up everything I want to say or write because there's an off chance that me laughing at a character sketch looking like Arnold Shwatenegger might offend someone?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:03
lmao
AngelToday at 17:03
Somnolent, fuck off, you're irrelevant and uninvolved.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:03
nah
any time anyone gets pissy over jokes i have to involve myself, see
because it's so funny
RavensDaggerToday at 17:04
I could apologise and say 'ah, I'm sorry me laughing at that joke offended you' but it would be a lie. I'm really not sorry. I found it funny, I laughed.
Literally every single joke has a victim
It's how humour works
AngelToday at 17:04
You just don't get it.
And to be honest, I'm doubting you ever will.
jacobkToday at 17:04
your offense is not enough to convince me to censor myself
AngelToday at 17:05
And you wonder why people punch nazis.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:05
lmao
are you really gonna
call us nazis for laughing at a joke
and laughing at you getting mad over it
AngelToday at 17:05
You're the one that said it.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:05
oh yeah, real cauldron 2.0
RavensDaggerToday at 17:06
I think in this circumstance, you the one acting in a fascist way? But let's please not devolve into accusing each other of nazism
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:06
hey angel
hey
lemme tell you a little secret
heil hitler
AngelToday at 17:06
Somn, I get it. You're an asshole.
Now kindly let the adults talk?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:07
gas the jews, 1488
RavensDaggerToday at 17:07
Somn, you fucking juvenile, gtfo for a bit
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:07
lmao
RavensDaggerToday at 17:07
Godamn asian cowboy
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:08
getting this mad over a joke isn't very adult either angel
especially like what
a week later
damn
talk about rent free
RavensDaggerToday at 17:08
Anyway~
@Angel I think this is some sort of fundamental misunderstanding. My morals wouldn't allow me to even begin to try censoring thing the way you seem to want me to. I think it sucks that Hel got upset, but I also refuse to hand out false apologies or censor myself from laughing (or worse, start walking on eggshells over everything) just because I might accidentally upset someone.
The entire foundation of humour involves turning someone into a victim. You'd be asking everyone to forgo comedy just because it might offend someone? Or maybe I'm putting words in your mouth there.
Actually, yeah, that's a good place to start: what do you want us to do?
AngelToday at 17:12
I'm not actually sure, tbh, since 'acting like decent human beings' is so far out of your reach.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:12
I'm acting human, period
AngelToday at 17:12
Decent human.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:12
I laughed at a fucking joke
AngelToday at 17:12
There's a rather noticable difference.
Yeah, and apologies are more like "I'm sorry I upset you," rather than "I'm sorry you got offended," y'know?
Remember that guy who did the stupid things in the suicide forest and the internet ragged on him for a while?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:14
that's why you never apologize for making a joke
RavensDaggerToday at 17:14
But I'm not sorry that I laughed
AngelToday at 17:14
I know your mother didn't, Somn.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:14
give one inch and people like you will take a mile lmao
RavensDaggerToday at 17:14
And I'm not sorry that we made jokes at the expense of a piece of poorly drawn artwork
OHhhhh
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:14
>mom jokes
>"let the adults talk"
pick one lmao
RavensDaggerToday at 17:14
Snap, lol
AngelToday at 17:15
So, I explained it in the clearest possible manner
And you still can't understand the difference.
I'm honestly amazed and can't rule out you're being stupid on purpose to try get a rise out of me.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:16
I... might have missed the explanation
AngelToday at 17:16
apologies are more like "I'm sorry I upset you," rather than "I'm sorry you got offended," y'know?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:16
I guarantee, any stupidity on my part is very much genetic and not purposeful
AngelToday at 17:16
Can you honestly not see?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:16
I can see it, yeah
AngelToday at 17:16
Christ almighty, how old are you?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:16
old enough to laugh at jokes
RavensDaggerToday at 17:16
27?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:17
unlike you, apparently
AngelToday at 17:17
I'll laugh at jokes when they're funny.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:17
Somn, go fuck that pretty hat of yours for a bit
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:17
alright
i'll be laughing at the biggest joke on this server in the meantime
AngelToday at 17:18
Don't be too much of a narcissist, Somn, it's unbecoming of you.
Raven, do you understand the difference between, "I'm sorry I upset you," and "I'm sorry you got offended,"?
If so, please explain it so I know where you're coming from.
Oh, hey, I see we got rid of the rules channel. Not like it was listened to to begin with, eh?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:22
But yeah, tl;dr:
I found a joke funny. Hel was offended by that joke.
I don't particularly care that someone found a joke offensive because... that's how jokes are. They always target someone, it's the nature of humour. Frankly, I found the level of offense Hel took to be a bit much, but there might be some history there. I don't know, I think the entirely of my interactions with Hel were saying 'hi' once or twice. 
Am I sorry they got upset? Yes, but frankly, more for all the trouble it's brought on than anything else. Would I laugh at another joke? Yes. Will we be implementing any sort of rules that make it so that people need to censor themselves here? No, this place is literally meant to be rule-less. I think we called the line on 'making death-threats.' It's the entire goal of this server; that people can interact and say and do what they want.
AngelToday at 17:23
I see.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:23
I don't want to not be friends with people, but I'm not going to lie to Hel and say I'm sorry I laughed at a joke that wasn't even directly at her expense
AngelToday at 17:24
You still don't get that all we're really looking for is an apology that you made her upset.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:24
Were it targetted to her, like your insults to Somn earlier, then I think there would be a stronger case, and yeah, then I might feel bad for laughing
AngelToday at 17:24
Calling me out but not somn, huh?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:25
Somn is Somn. He's got the maturity of twice-hit roadkill, I don't expect much out of him if it isn't related to grammar or guns
AngelToday at 17:25
And that somehow makes it more acceptable when he does it?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:26
It would be acceptable if anyone did it, that's the point
AngelToday at 17:26
Let me guess; it's in the name of tolerance or something.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:26
Your thing earlier accusing folks of nazism? That might have been horribly offensive were I Jewish
No, fuck no
AngelToday at 17:26
Excuse me, when did I accuse folks of nazism?
jacobkToday at 17:27
hi
RavensDaggerToday at 17:27
Fuck tolerance, it's about anti-censorship and not letting the possibility of hurting others stop you from finding humour in life.
Ah, nvm, you said something about punching nazis, I misremembered, my bad
AngelToday at 17:28
I'm sorry if you saw a link that wasn't there.
I find the assumptions made about it rather self-damning, though.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:29
I'm likewise sorry that Hel thought we were laughing at her expense
AngelToday at 17:29
As they say, don't meet your heroes.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:31
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly, I'm not even sure what we're arguing over anymore
Hel got offended
Okay, that sucks, but it happens I suppose
AngelToday at 17:31
Your ability to recognise the difference between apologising for upsetting someone and censoring yourself.
Believe it or not, they are two different things.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:35
The thing is, I am sorry she got upset. We might have triggered something or... whatever, point is, yeah, I'm sorry. 
But if someone comes in here and starts spouting a rhetoric that mocks Hel's ethnicity tomorrow, and they said something funny, I'd laugh at that too. 
I fundamentally disagree with censorship. It shits in the face of the base of my moral code to tell someone that they can't think a certain way or say certain things. It makes liars of all of us and stifles discussion and yes, it ruins humour
Do you want me to apologise to Hel? I would. But I'm not going to apologise for laughing and I certainly would laugh again.
Does that make me a horrid person? Maybe, but at least I won't lie about it.
AngelToday at 17:36
Would you believe me if I said that is all I was fighting for this whole godamn time?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:36
Pretty sure I said as much at the start
AngelToday at 17:36
You really didn't.
You have, this entire time, been spouting your anti-censorship rhetoric rather than say you feel even marginally bad about upsetting her. You've been saying you refuse to apologise for that, and would do it again in a heartbeat.
This whole. Fucking. Time.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:38
then leave lol
AngelToday at 17:38
Somn, if I want some unintelligent conversation, I'll come find you, okay?
RavensDaggerToday at 17:38
That would just cut off the discussion, Somn
Neither side would learn anything
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:38
if angel doesn't wanna be here then why stay?
clearly the dudebro attitudes offends angel
AngelToday at 17:39
I have this decidedly unhelpful urge to actually try and make the world a better place.
I know my efforts are wasted on you, but Raven might still have some potential.
See how without you around, we actually managed to get the point across to each other?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:40
apologizing for jokes is antithetical to anti-censorship attitudes
unfortunately
RavensDaggerToday at 17:40
^
AngelToday at 17:40
Yes, yes, I know you haven't learned anything.
As I said, if I wanted unintelligent conversation, I'd call for you.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:40
I don't think my stance on anti-censorship will change anytime soon
AngelToday at 17:40
I'm not asking it to.
Do you not get that?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:41
You have, this entire time, been spouting your anti-censorship rhetoric rather than say you feel even marginally bad about upsetting her. You've been saying you refuse to apologise for that, and would do it again in a heartbeat.
that's bc it's dumb to apologize for something you aren't actually sorry for and would do again in a heartbeat, see
RavensDaggerToday at 17:41
I do, but you're asking me to apologise for laughing at a joke
AngelToday at 17:41
I'm not asking you to apologise for laughing at a joke.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:41
what's the point in saying sorry if you're just gonna do it again later
RavensDaggerToday at 17:41
The fuck you asking for?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:42
like it's 100% guaranteed that you're gonna get offended again at something sooner or later if you stay lol
so what's the point
AngelToday at 17:42
An apology for upsetting her. Jesus christ we've been over this so many times
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:42
isn't that what he already did
AngelToday at 17:42
I'll give you a hint, Somn.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:42
he said he was sorry for upsetting her
AngelToday at 17:42
It's lead, and it's between your eyes.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:42
you'll have to do it yourself unfortunately
i have better trigger discipline than that
i hope you have a plate carrier
AngelToday at 17:42
Now that's a funny joke.
You? Discipline?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:42
yup
i doubt i'd be alive if i didn't have trigger discipline
AngelToday at 17:43
What a wasted opportunity.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:43
best safety on earth, the booger picker
well, you'll just have to make the best of it
that's life, ain't it
AngelToday at 17:43
Unfortunately.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:43
ain't a thing you can do about it lol
RavensDaggerToday at 17:43
I'm getting a stiff drink
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:44
also you misspelled hint
almost got excited bc i thought you were gonna start talking about the HIND D
AngelToday at 17:44
We've really gotten to the point where you're pointing out spelling mistakes?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:44
well yeah
what do you think my main job is on SB when i'm reading fics
spagcheck galore
AngelToday at 17:44
You know that's basically as good as admitting you've lost the argument, right?
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:45
i didn't know we were actually arguing
i thought i was baiting you because i thought it was funny
AngelToday at 17:45
Really? If I didn't know better I'd say you had ODD.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:45
i do enjoy how you seem to be spinning this narrative that you're like, some kind of savior here to save ravens from being a bad person lmao
AngelToday at 17:46
You've made it clear you're not worth the effort.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:46
you seem to be under the impression you're actually like
doing anything worthwhile
trying to save people on the internet from the hideous fate of enjoying jokes
wow, how terrible
AngelToday at 17:47
Aaaand you still don't get it.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:47
neither do you, apparently
BlackmarchToday at 17:47
Dude. Somn. You're a dick.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:48
have i ever denied that
lmao
RavensDaggerToday at 17:48
Somn is Somn
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:48
imagine being this angry over other people finding a joke funny and not apologizing for the fact that finding a joke funny offends people
top seethe
AngelToday at 17:49
I've quite literally said several times that's not what I'm asking for, but hey, somehow you're a beta and can't read.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:50
I think it's because you haven't been clear as to what you want?
Or maybe you have and it was lost somewhere above
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:51
you want an apology for offending your wife, no?
An apology for upsetting her. Jesus christ we've been over this so many times
except why apologize when we aren't sorry?
AngelToday at 17:51
And somehow that translates to 'apologise for finding a joke funny'.
Which isn't what it is.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:52
well yeah
finding the joke funny is what offended your wife
people laughed at the joke
RavensDaggerToday at 17:52
^
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:52
your wife left because people made a joke and others laughed at it
BlackmarchToday at 17:52
Man. You guys just...don't get it, do you?
I don't know what this is. Some ideological thing or what.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:53
I'm genuinely uncertain as to what Angel wants, if you could explain it better I'd love to hear it.
No sarcasm
Seriously
AngelToday at 17:53
I've been trying, you haven't been listening.
Somn hasn't been helping, but I'm not sure he's capable.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:53
Use bullet points?
BlackmarchToday at 17:53
Somn just kinda jumped in, looks like.
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:54
>"apologize for making my wife angry!"
>"no"

AngelToday at 17:54
Does this server actually gain anything by having him here?
No sarcasm.
BlackmarchToday at 17:54
Dude. Maybe I missed it, but I forget the part where Angel asked you to come on over.
or Raven for that matter.
Did I miss that?
AngelToday at 17:55
I poked raven to start this conversation.
RavensDaggerToday at 17:55
It's a free server
somnolentSlumberToday at 17:55
literally nobody else on this server has an issue with it except angel lmao
RavensDaggerToday at 17:55
Now, the points, let's get to them instead of talking about Somn's Somniness
BlackmarchToday at 17:55
I certainly do. But, yes. Let them fucking talk, Somn.
AngelToday at 17:55
Well, I guess if it's that kind of free I can't expect anyone living in it to be housebroken, can I?
I'm sorry, Somn, for whatever you went through that turned you into the person you are today.