# Pastebin Usm3t07J
<•barredowl> .s last plane out of south
11:11 AM <•Secretary_Helen> barredowl: Last Plane Out of the South (Rating: +100. Written 7 years ago By: azzleflux, djoric, dmatix, zyn) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/last-plane-out-of-the-south
11:11 AM <•barredowl> read all
11:18 AM <•barredowl> alright, i've finished.
11:18 AM <•Calibri_Bold> Same.
11:19 AM <•cybersqyd> me too
11:19 AM <BlueJones> NOt yet
11:19 AM <•cybersqyd> no worries :3
11:19 AM <•barredowl> yeah, i'll wait until both blue and red finish, i guess.
11:21 AM <red3> I'm a slow-poke.
11:22 AM <•cybersqyd> hey no worries ^^
11:22 AM <•barredowl> fastpoke
11:22 AM — SharpEmbrace poke poke
11:22 AM <•cybersqyd> i read super quickly sometimes D:
11:22 AM <red3> A real zoomer.
11:22 AM <BlueJones> super slow poke here
11:22 AM <•cybersqyd> like, i never finish first cos i usually read a piece twice and get distracted mid way through too
11:25 AM <SharpEmbrace> done
11:26 AM <BlueJones> finished
11:26 AM <•barredowl> alright, should we start with our first impressions?
11:26 AM <BlueJones> I rather liked this piece
11:26 AM <•cybersqyd> is red done?
11:27 AM <red3> Mhm.
11:27 AM <SharpEmbrace> I think it started off strong, but fizzled out a little bit
11:27 AM <red3> Note that this is canon is based off of SCP-1483.
11:27 AM <red3> SCP-1483
11:27 AM <•Secretary_Helen> red3: SCP-1483: The Third Antarctic Empire (Rating: +400. Written 7 years ago By: Djoric) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-1483
11:27 AM <•barredowl> i thought it was fairly weird and i liked certain parts of it (like the scholar inquiring about the midwest, or the servant fantasizing about killing the posh guy), but i was a little confused at parts.
11:27 AM <•Calibri_Bold> Same.
11:27 AM <•cybersqyd> I...have mixed feelings on it
11:27 AM <•cybersqyd> it felt a touch too much like a dossier of characters for my taste
11:28 AM <•cybersqyd> but like, each individual thing was delightfully weird
11:28 AM <•Calibri_Bold> It had some interesting moments and content, but there was a huge lack of context.
11:28 AM <•barredowl> yeah, that's my feel here.
11:28 AM <BlueJones> The start of this threw me off a bit with the "Hey what if catholic church and the ming dynasty had a baby?" but then I grew to like the quirkiness of the characters
11:28 AM <•cybersqyd> yeah
11:28 AM <•barredowl> i think 1483 was supposed to explain this more?
11:28 AM <•cybersqyd> the characters all feel interesting to hang out with
11:28 AM <•barredowl> i thought the characters here were really fun, yeah.
11:29 AM <•cybersqyd> hm: it feels perhaps a little too much like a ttrpg party tho?
11:29 AM <red3> There's great pacing with the constant switching between characters, but that also bring some confusion because the reader just learned about a really interesting character, and then is thrown into the mind of another character. There's also very little progression of the actual story besides just introducing the characters, which isn't really a bad thing since this is an opening piece, but it does still irk me.
11:29 AM <SharpEmbrace> the artists, the scientist and the assistant were less interesting for me
11:29 AM <•barredowl> yeah, there really isn't much progression, kinda feels like a sitcom opening, but better :P
11:29 AM <SharpEmbrace> i like the "multiple differing perspectives on the same scene" though
11:29 AM <•cybersqyd> yeah, i agree there red3
11:29 AM <BlueJones> I love the servant's analyzing of tasks and simply determining whether he would feel better if he killed his boss. Made me chuckle cause I love it when characters do that
11:30 AM <•cybersqyd> i think it feels too much like an introductory thing?
11:30 AM <•cybersqyd> like, I like it because i'm mentally treating it as a prologue?
11:30 AM <•barredowl> yeah, that's what i got from it.
11:30 AM <SharpEmbrace> cybersqyd: same
11:30 AM <•cybersqyd> but if this was *all* there was to it, it'd be profoundly unsatisfying
11:30 AM <•barredowl> yep, i'd agree.
11:30 AM <BlueJones> Agreed
11:30 AM <SharpEmbrace> there's not a lot of them doing something, so it feels like setup without payoff
11:30 AM <•cybersqyd> yeah
11:30 AM <red3> On Cyber's point, there isn't enough time in this kind of story to really get into depth with the characters, so it kinda has to go with D&D party introductions.
11:31 AM <•barredowl> i think it really sets the scene here, how alien these people from this empire really are.
11:31 AM <•cybersqyd> true
11:31 AM <SharpEmbrace> i generally don't like having your first entry in a series only exist to setup characters
11:31 AM <•cybersqyd> it really feels like it's just, very quickly setting up like 'this is their name, their main quirk, and what they do' for everyone
11:31 AM <•barredowl> i'm conflicted on whether or not that's a benefit or a detriment here
11:31 AM <SharpEmbrace> yeah there's not much of interest once you get past that
11:31 AM <•cybersqyd> i think it's a detriment to this piece but probably a benefit to the series
11:32 AM <•barredowl> because on one hand, i think it's a nice introduction, and there's some intrigue to be earned here, and it does have a nice motion into what the next tale will be like
11:32 AM <red3> That's the point. The reader is meant to get a simple image of the character in their minds which can be expanded upon in later entries.
11:32 AM <•cybersqyd> yeah
11:32 AM <•barredowl> cyber: yeah
11:32 AM <SharpEmbrace> i'd like to see there be some actual conflict here
11:32 AM <SharpEmbrace> and see how all the characters react to it
11:32 AM <•cybersqyd> mmm
11:32 AM <•cybersqyd> i kinda disagree?
11:32 AM <•barredowl> i personally don't think that was really needed, but that's just me.
11:32 AM <•cybersqyd> or well, I can see where you're coming from
11:32 AM <•barredowl> i think that's what the next tales should elaborate and deal with, yeah
11:33 AM <•cybersqyd> but I also think it'd mean this is trying to establish too much
11:33 AM <SharpEmbrace> maybe that's just because i don't find these guys especially interesting
11:33 AM <•barredowl> but personally, i thought it suited its job as an introduction well.
11:33 AM <SharpEmbrace> so it's not enough to make this strong in my eyes
11:33 AM <•barredowl> and we'll have to think about this a lot, you know, what purpose something serves in terms of telling a series of tales
11:33 AM <•cybersqyd> i don't think this is a good introduction per se so much as like, a good prequel to the introduction?
11:34 AM <•barredowl> most of the characters were interesting enough, and i could see myself empathizing with them, but i glazed over some of them.
11:34 AM <red3> This may be a really niche metaphor, but I see this opening as something similar to the opening song of a musical. There's some hints of relationships between the characters, there's some small sprinkles of conflict between Sakarn and their assistant, there's just small bits of everything in there. It's not meant to get expanded upon, it's just meant to hook the reader in.
11:34 AM <SharpEmbrace> cybersqyd: same, I don't have much of an idea of the setting and tone
11:34 AM <•barredowl> that's just a result of my poor attention span though, perhaps.
11:34 AM <•cybersqyd> red3: yeah I'd agree
11:34 AM <red3> Cybersqyd: Exactly. It's more of an introduction.
11:34 AM <•barredowl> i thought the setting and tone were pretty well-established actually
11:34 AM <SharpEmbrace> red3: Just a hook does not make for a good article in my eyes
11:34 AM <•barredowl> that this is going to be a fish-out-of-water story, with some comedic elements.
11:35 AM <•cybersqyd> yeah
11:35 AM <SharpEmbrace> i'm genuinely a little annoyed that the plane thing didn't get that much time
11:35 AM <•cybersqyd> I got the real impression that it'd be like, kinda surreal but not *extremely* so
11:35 AM <•barredowl> indeed.
11:35 AM <red3> SharpEmbrace: Well, we are looking at this as an isolated article. I think as we go in with the series, having something really blunt like this will help to make sure that a character doesn't just show up out of nowhere.
11:35 AM <SharpEmbrace> like, how do you put so much attention on that in your first paragraph and then just forget about it
11:36 AM <BlueJones> This piece has done a fantastic job of setting up characters and what their personalities/what their society is like without reading the SCP that spawned this, like it makes me want to read more of this canon and perhaps the SCP that did this
11:36 AM <•cybersqyd> It's interesting actually that it mentions that 'the plane will eventually be scrapped in 2024' but doesn't contextualise how far away taht is
11:36 AM <red3> I do agree that there was a bit too much focus on the characters for my liking, though. I would've liked to see more of the setting and have an actual goal to really get the reader invested.
11:36 AM <•cybersqyd> ^
11:36 AM <SharpEmbrace> ^^
11:36 AM <•barredowl> red3: eh, i think we should still consider its place in the series, even if we're still in the first hour of this series
11:36 AM <•cybersqyd> That said: I think if it had, it'd have felt like it was trying to setup too much?
11:36 AM <SharpEmbrace> plus, i don't find the characters endearing enough to make up for this 
11:36 AM <•cybersqyd> Like, there's a lot of characters here, and relationships and stuff, and adding narrative too would make this feel messy?
11:37 AM <•barredowl> yep, i have to agree there.
11:37 AM <•barredowl> this is more character-oriented for me, not narrative-oriented
11:37 AM <•barredowl> which to me is a good way to have an introduction i feel?
11:37 AM <•cybersqyd> yeah
11:38 AM <DrMoned> I like it as a prologue to be fair, with setting the scene and everything. Not sure what else could be done that would have the same effect
11:39 AM <•barredowl> there are some introductory tales which have more narrative elements (such as in we need to talk about 055)
11:39 AM <SharpEmbrace> I don't really like establishing characters in isolation of the events that will happen to them and how they react
11:39 AM <•barredowl> but hmm.
11:39 AM <BlueJones> Could have had some of the SCP guys pov to see what they think of this bizarre cast of characters? Perhaps that's what I'd have done if I was writing this?
11:40 AM <•barredowl> hmm, i'm not sure about that.
11:40 AM <•cybersqyd> If I was writing this, I'd probably have trimmed the number of characters down some and like, introduced the narrative
11:40 AM <SharpEmbrace> i like characterisation through action more than this characterisation through narration
11:40 AM <DrMoned> I have read the canon before and personally, with all the information being thrown at the reader I like the introduction
11:40 AM <SharpEmbrace> I also agree that I feel there might be too many people here?
11:40 AM <DrMoned> There is a lot to take in, and the tale nicely splits it up
11:40 AM <red3> I think one of its problems might be its length. Since it's so short, it doesn't really have time to jam in the beginning of a narrative thread without losing the central purpose of introducing the characters. If it were a bit longer and included more interaction between the characters, rather than them just doing isolated activities that show their personality.
11:41 AM <SharpEmbrace> yeah in that aspect it felt a little rushed
11:41 AM <•cybersqyd> red3, see, I kinda agree but think it's at about the ideal length for a piece: this is why I think trimming the total number of characters would be good here
11:41 AM <•cybersqyd> rather than trying to keep the same number of characters and do more with them
11:42 AM <•barredowl> yeah, i was gonna say: some characters either just bounced off me or felt perfunctory.
11:43 AM <SharpEmbrace> yeah the artists and the assistant particularly flopped for me
11:43 AM <•barredowl> indeed.
11:43 AM <DrMoned> cybersqyd but for the canon overall that seems detrimental
11:44 AM <•cybersqyd> I kinda liked the artists but I'm a sucker for stuff about arts
11:44 AM <red3> DrMoned: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
11:44 AM <SharpEmbrace> and so we come to one of the first issues with canons as a whole
11:44 AM <•cybersqyd> DrMoned, perhaps; I'm judging this in isolation at the moment; but it seems like some of the characters are relatively shallow and don't need as much introduction?
11:44 AM <SharpEmbrace> making stories that stand on their own legs whilst serving a larger story
11:44 AM <DrMoned> Yeah, I feel like my bias affects this
11:45 AM <•cybersqyd> (Do we want to move on? Or do folk have other stuff to say?)
11:45 AM <DrMoned> I read, and quite enjoyed, the rest of the canon and the way the characters were used
11:45 AM <SharpEmbrace> Who do yall think was the most interesting character here?
11:45 AM <•barredowl> i don't think having less characters would necessarily be a detriment i feel
11:45 AM <red3> SharpEmbrace: I think that's more a case of this specific canon since it has a set storyline, rather than canons as a whole. Something like EoD allows for more standalone articles since it's more just a world, rather than a story.
11:45 AM <•barredowl> sharpembrace: either the scholar or snow
11:45 AM <SharpEmbrace> series, then, rather than canon
11:46 AM <•cybersqyd> SharpEmbrace, the highest or sort of the artists (i don't think they're the most interesting so much as they're the ones i'm most interested in)
11:46 AM <•barredowl> i just overall enjoyed the interactions here and the different angles explored.
11:46 AM <•barredowl> overall, i really liked it. i'd say it's an upvote from me.
11:46 AM <SharpEmbrace> i concur with the highest being cool
11:46 AM <•barredowl> light to medium upvote.
11:47 AM <•Calibri_Bold> This feels a bit more like a GoI, or even a series, than a canon. Maybe it's just me.
11:47 AM <red3> Overall, I think that this is a great example of how to introduce a lot of characters, if a bit too short and isolated from the main story for my liking.
11:47 AM <DrMoned> I really like the Highest
11:47 AM <•cybersqyd> I feel like, perhaps, this would've been more effective if it was collapsed into the hub
11:47 AM <DrMoned> Probably introduced at the end
11:47 AM <DrMoned> *for a reason
11:48 AM <•barredowl> i didn't pay attention to the highest very much unfortunately :|
11:48 AM <•cybersqyd> the highest is fun
11:48 AM <SharpEmbrace> cybersqyd: Definitely, as a synopsis of the characters in the story this would work great
11:48 AM <red3> cybersqyd: I don't think that's a good idea. Simply telling the reader each character's personality traits won't make them memorable, and will make the story a lot more boring than what this did.
11:48 AM <BlueJones> I'd Upvote it for the servant and the assistant's observations, and the Highest was pretty cool as well
11:49 AM <•cybersqyd> red3: to be fair, if I was gonna shove this into the hub, I wouldn't cut more than the first three paragraphs and the final two
11:49 AM <•cybersqyd> (namely, the parts not actually about characters_
11:49 AM <•barredowl> alright, then. i think that's mostly it for me. generally, i liked it.
11:50 AM <DrMoned> 👍
11:50 AM <red3> Same here.
11:50 AM <•cybersqyd> this is a tentative upvote assuming the rest of the series executes on what it sets up well
11:50 AM <SharpEmbrace> i'm downvoting, because some of the characters fell flat and not a lot happened of interest
11:50 AM <•barredowl> understandable.
11:50 AM <•Calibri_Bold> Same.
11:51 AM <•Calibri_Bold> I'll confess that maybe I'd like this more with a better understanding of the canon, but it just doesn't cut it for me.
11:51 AM <•barredowl> anything else to say, or should we take a quick break now?
11:51 AM <•barredowl> C_B: i can see that.
11:51 AM <BlueJones> I'm down for a quick break
11:52 AM <•barredowl> okay, then.
11:52 AM <•barredowl> give it, idk, six minutes. maybe seven.
11:52 AM <•barredowl> grab a snack, sit back, relax
11:52 AM <•barredowl> break time.
11:53 AM <DrMoned> \o/
11:59 AM <•barredowl> ready to get into the second tale just yet?
11:59 AM <•barredowl> or should we give it a couple more?
11:59 AM <•cybersqyd> im ready whenever
11:59 AM <red3> I think most of us are ready.
11:59 AM <•barredowl> alright then
12:00 PM <•barredowl> so soon enough, we should link our second tale in the series.
12:00 PM <BlueJones> I'm ready to go now!
12:00 PM <red3> Should we get a log?
12:00 PM <•barredowl> oh yeah that
12:00 PM <•barredowl> maybe before we start we should get a log of the previous conversation?
12:00 PM <•barredowl> anyone up to that task
12:00 PM <•barredowl> ?
12:02 PM <BlueJones> I have no idea what to do for that so I ain't gonna volunteer. Sorry
12:03 PM <•cybersqyd> i can grab logs but i don't use irccloud so they'd be a different format to other weeks
12:03 PM <•barredowl> just copy/paste into a pastebin what you think encompasses the conversation we had