# Pastebin PGuRk363
The paste bin conversation with John Betts in #mtgox-talk 08:19:48
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Hi everyone, I am John Betts, leading the Sunlot efforts and SaveGox.com
08:20:13
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I understand there are a lot of questions regarding our announcement, and I would like to spend some time making myself available to answer them
08:20:50
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Unfortunatey I can not stay on long right now - though I can come back, and if requested, we can arrange a time todo so
08:21:05
 
<
Alina-malina
>
 hi johnbetts
08:21:11
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 johnbetts: where did you get the 10 million USD number from which is apparently needed to 'try' and find lost/stolen coins?
08:21:25
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 Shaded: actually, that also sounds very alarming. We don't yet know what happened to those coins. Perfect plan: say coins were lost, then magically recover them, say private key was damaged and you're clean, returning only 10% of coins practically legally owning the rest
08:21:46
 
<
johnbetts
>
 ok, let me address the recovery fund
08:22:54
 
<
johnbetts
>
 can we all agree that a massive theft has occurred here? At according to my tally based on the numbers presented to the bankruptcy court, and given to me by Mark, short of having an independent audit, is in the region of 550k coins
08:23:21
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 yes
08:23:32
 
<
johnbetts
>
 on todays dollars that's ~ $243 million that was stolen
08:23:58
 
<
johnbetts
>
 and then on top of that, once again, according to the initial civil rehabilitation filings, there is approximately $40m in Fiat missing
08:24:16
 
<
johnbetts
>
 so give or take $283m
08:25:22
 
<
Hachima
>
 What do you know about the efforts that have already been conducted to find the coins?  What resources are you aware of that are available that haven't been used yet that the recovery fund would assist with? As far as I know a very significant effort has already taken place involving thousands of man hours of experts including multiple government agencies.
08:25:27
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 johnbetts alright, so lets say the 10 million is used. is that going to come from the left over fiat? or will be BTC be sold as well?

08:25:32
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: can you please clarify this one thing: am I understanding correctly that if additional coins are recovered - that is, more than 200k already found - then customers only get to receive 10% of those coins?
08:25:33
 
<
johnbetts
>
 first of all, we need to hire independent auditors, whom everyone will trust - as much as we can get everyone to agree - to state what happened, how the coins and fiat were stolen, and what ever digital forensics we can get to identify those responsible
08:25:50
 
<
johnbetts
>
 no
08:25:53
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: ok
08:26:07
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 Please explain the 10% figure about the recovery fund.
08:26:16
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: yeah, cos it's a bit confusing
08:26:20
 
<
johnbetts
>
 the plan is any recovered assets go back to customers - all, minus a bounty fund that we would like to establish to encourage those who help find, and recover the coins
08:26:38
 
<
sobriket
>
 johnbetts, you have the quality to calmly present a deal that's bad for creditors as a great one. It must be very valuable in the business environment you operate in.
08:26:42
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 but aren't we paying them already 10 million dollars for that?
08:26:48
 
<
Hachima
>
 It is our money being used to help recover the coins right? The $10 million
08:26:58
 
<
sobriket
>
 Could you please state whether or not you are aware of this: http://www.goxdox.org/2014/04/mt-gox-was-hacked-in-2013-this-is-when.html
08:26:58
 
<
garnon
>
 i was raped by life
08:27:23
 
<
Hachima
>
 If it was someone else fronting the $10 million and not us, that would be understandable, but it is using our money to fund the investigation
08:27:40
 
<
johnbetts
>
 first of all, the $10m will be managed by an independent trustee - it is not a slush fund, it is not used for the operation of the exchange
08:27:50
 
<
johnbetts
>
 any unused funds from that go back to creditors
08:28:02
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 johnbetts: alright, so lets say the 10 million is used. is that going to come from the left over fiat? or will be BTC be sold as well?
08:28:16
 
<
Hachima
>
 What experts do you plan to hire?  Why do you think they are more capable than the experts alreadsy involved?
08:28:31
 
<
johnbetts
>
 left over fiat returned to customers
08:28:47
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Hachima, which experts are already involved? (inside Gox that is)
08:29:05
 
<
Hachima
>
 I believe everything is still classified right?
08:29:23
 
<
Hachima
>
 Including the potential leads
08:29:58
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Our understanding is that the Tokyo police are investigating
08:30:20
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 Well thats the same as Santa looking into this.
08:30:37
 
<
Hachima
>
 The FBI is also involved
08:30:38
 
<
sobriket
>
 to sum up your deal: 1. wipe all debts off the table for a laughable 16,5% stake. 2. Then use 10% of existing assets to do some sort of investigation, which is likely to result in some extra cash for you since you likely have some information you're not spreading; 3. Have no other contractual obligations. 4. Sell the debt-free business to someone else
08:30:40
 
<
johnbetts
>
 and I have no inside knowledge as to the bitcoin credentials, or international remit, that the Tokyo police have for tracing the stolen assets
08:30:53
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: what about the fiat customers: will some of our coins be sold to pay them back?
08:31:11
 
<
sobriket
>
 johnbetts you stopped short of answering my question
08:31:28
 
<
sobriket
>
 you're careful not to put a lie on record, I understand that
08:31:49
 
<
EnnnE
>
 @johnbetts: would you consider dismissing jon holmquist (shaded) from your team, because he is publishing vague (and sometimes false) information, and instead communicate to the community in a clear, precise manner through other channels, for example through announcements on the savegox website?
08:31:56
 
<
johnbetts
>
 sobriket, It is not my intention to challenge you, though it is very easy to criticize a plan without understanding the enormous complexities involved
08:32:21
 
<
sobriket
>
 you're still not answering the question
08:32:26
 
<
johnbetts
>
 brokemusic - fiat and btc balances (many customers have both) will be treated equally
08:32:32
 
<
sobriket
>
 my take is that yes you knew
08:32:42
 
<
sobriket
>
 but you don't want to get it out to the public
08:32:46
 
<
sobriket
>
 for some reason
08:32:48
 
<
Desiny420
>
 sobriket: please just stop your spamming for a second. I for one want to see what this guy has to say. All I see you doing is attacking and not focused on getting our damn money back.
08:32:48
 
<
Hachima
>
 Shaded claimed you already have 50,000 people supporting the plan.  How did all these people contact you already?  It seems like you are just representing 50,000 people and many are probably even unaware that you are representing them.
08:32:54
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Can I please make a statement, and request to everyone here?
08:33:10
 
<
EnnnE
>
 @sobriket: please calm down a bit
08:34:02
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: "will be treated equally" requires an explanation. I'm not necessarily against it, I just want to understad, does it mean some coins may be sold to cover fiat customers?
08:34:05
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Please do not take this as being dismissive, though this is a HIGHLY complex situation -
08:34:17
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: sure
08:34:50
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 I think there a lot of rage in the community coming at Sunlot and we should really calm down a bit and think clearly
08:35:00
 
<
sobriket
>
 Desiny420 I'll stop for now, but I'm focused on not getting ripped off
08:35:05
 
<
johnbetts
>
 And it has always been, and still is, our intention to work with customers - though the unfortunate fact of the situation is this is not always possible, especially with  138,000 independent voices, or potentially more
08:35:15
 
<
mrwillis
>
 You already got ripped off, and it wasn't by this guy
08:36:03
 
<
Lao_ban_
>
 Hi everyone
08:36:03
 
<
mrwillis
>
 whats the statement?
08:36:09
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 hi Lao_ban_
08:36:23
 
<
mrwillis
>
 oh snap all the heavy hitters all in one place?
08:36:24
 
<
johnbetts
>
 it is also not possible, or in cases advantages to customers, to discuss everything publically - it could jeopordise our efforts, and jeoperdise our ability to recover assets
08:36:38
 
<
Lao_ban_
>
 16.5% and $10M of our own money for an audit? Am I hearing this right?
08:36:41
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Hi Lao Ban
08:36:52
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I am explaining what was submitted
08:36:52
 
<
sam
>
 jeopurdy
08:36:52
 
<
+Shaded
>
 johnbetts: Lao is Daniel
08:36:56
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I know
08:37:03
 
<
+Shaded
>
 kk
08:37:31
 
<
johnbetts
>
 so, there are a few issues here, and it might help if we break them down to the respective parts?
08:37:53
 
<
johnbetts
>
 1) Remuneration for Losses
08:38:01
 
<
johnbetts
>
 2) Recovering Stolen assets
08:38:04
 
<
analogrithems
>
 quick question is all of tibane in bankruptcy  or just mtgox
08:38:09
 
<
johnbetts
>
 3) Building a new exchange
08:38:24
 
<
johnbetts
>
 4) Communicating and participation of customers in the processes
08:38:25
 
<
sz4dy
>
 johnbetts: what about a non-verified users?
08:38:29
 
<
analogrithems
>
 meaning if I had a nda with tibane for auditing gox security is that company valid anymore?
08:38:36
 
<
mrwillis
>
 let the man speak for a min
08:38:39
 
<
Hachima
>
 only 50k of the 127k will be represented?
08:38:39
 
<
mrwillis
>
 before sidetracking
08:38:50
 
<
johnbetts
>
 5) The legal process of being in a position to do ANYTHING that can give customers a shot at getting their assets back
08:38:56
 
<
johnbetts
>
 am I missing anything?
08:39:15
 
<
johnbetts
>
 We can add how many customers, what balances,etc. as 6) Audit
08:39:20
 
<
mrwillis
>
 6) prosecution of mark
08:39:24
 
<
mrwillis
>
 thats on my list
08:39:26
 
<
mrwillis
>
 for sure
08:39:45
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I consider that part of 2 though if you like that could be a separate item
08:40:15
 
<
johnbetts
>
 let me add another, 7) funding for the new business
08:40:20
 
<
Lao_ban_
>
 lets start at 1
08:40:22
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 after OKcoin submits its plan, you should have another Google Hangout
08:40:24
 
<
Lao_ban_
>
 what do we get
08:40:53
 
<
johnbetts
>
 first of all - I am going to apologize in advance for my poor spelling!
08:41:03
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Remuneration:
08:41:16
 
<
Lao_ban_
>
 i joined on my chat alient as well, irccloud is slow as hell today
08:41:23
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 this is still me
08:41:33
 
<
johnbetts
>
 This takes place in a few mechanisms - the first being - post audit - return of existing customer assets to customers
08:41:54
 
<
johnbetts
>
 so we have a challenge - we have customers with coin, and customers with fiat, and some with both
08:42:23
 
<
johnbetts
>
 until we have the audit done, and potentially even then, there is no way to say that the cash losses are equal percentage wise to coin losses
08:43:01
 
<
johnbetts
>
 so we need to normalize cash and coin losses based on an agreed exchange rate for btc to fiat, and between the respective currencies in which customers hold their fiat
08:43:54
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 so if fiat losses are less than btc losses, does it mean more coins will be purchased for fiat to normalize the losses?
08:43:58
 
<
johnbetts
>
 once we have that, and we combine the normalized value of cash and coin held at Mt Gox by the administrator, and in each of the customer accounts, we can work out a percentage that each customer should get to get an equal portion of the proceeds
08:44:13
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 why not just take the average price of a bitcoin from feb 1 to now and use that?
08:44:22
 
<
johnbetts
>
 brokenmusic - that is one option - though we really need to do the math at the time to see what is best for customers
08:44:46
 
<
johnbetts
>
 after the above, we also need to ensure any fraudelent accounts, or those responsible, incl. Tibanne, are not included in the refund distribution
08:44:54
 
<
sz4dy
>
 you know that 16,5% interest in Sunlot (future exchange) for so many users is less than fuck all? Its gona take 100 years to get anything back
08:45:25
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: yeah, a delicate subject. If it was the other way round, I would surely protest that my coins are sold to cover fiat losses
08:45:27
 
<
johnbetts
>
 once that is done, a distribution will be made to customers who will be free to withdraw immedialtey
08:45:33
 
<
sobriket
>
 would you consider taking the last traded MtGox BTC price as a reference for redistribution?
08:45:48
 
<
Mantrid
>
 lol
08:46:01
 
<
johnbetts
>
 sobriket, the btc/fiat price has been the subject of many lengthy discussions
08:46:21
 
<
johnbetts
>
 we did not use Gox prices as they were way undervalued due to the challenges
08:46:27
 
<
Mantrid
>
 "latest goxcoin price" would be more accurate
08:46:45
 
<
johnbetts
>
 and based on pricing around Feb 24 when the site was shut down, and todate where coin is trading at $460 - we established a $500 price
08:47:14
 
<
samO_
>
 a lot of complex thing are here regarding restart of gox and audits and percentages... but what strucks me the most is gay-bouchery involment! (?!?!? (and jed's?!?!)
08:47:32
 
<
johnbetts
>
 next: equity interest
08:47:55
 
<
johnbetts
>
 We are not just starting another exchange local in Tokyo - we are starting a global exchange,and combining our other assets and liquidity into this
08:48:04
 
<
sz4dy
>
 Johnbetts: Do you know that 16,5% interest in Sunlot (future exchange) for so many users is less than fuck all? Its gona take 100 years to get anything back
08:48:26
 
<
sz4dy
>
 Johnbetts: Okcoin is offering 49%..
08:48:52
 
<
johnbetts
>
 There is a big difference between $ value and %
08:48:53
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 what is the difference between a local exchange and a global one?
08:48:58
 
<
samO_
>
 what gay-bouchery is doing in the scheme? he should be excluded and possibly put together with mark (until proven that he;'s clean...)
08:49:00
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 sz4dy: the question is not whether it's a fuck you all proposal, but whether okcoin will submit a plan offering this 49% deal. Then they have competition
08:49:26
 
<
johnbetts
>
 All our exchange related businesses will be held under Sunlot - customers wont just get a piece of a "nex gox" launched in Tokyo
08:49:33
 
<
chrono000
>
 sz4dy: he is trying to argue its gona be worth a lot. shaded had trouble explaining how this global new exchange would be any good and how much will be invested in it to get it done right. gox was already global.
08:49:51
 
<
Desiny420
>
 Does the OKcoin deal give us 49% of OkCoin or just the Japanese arm of OkCoin?
08:49:51
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 samO_: they probably need his cooperation for audit and recovery attempts. I think it may be reasonable, the guy wants a deal to get out clean
08:49:56
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 Customers get a piece of Sun Lot, an entity that has never before run a bitcoin exchnage
08:50:00
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 for the record
08:50:17
 
<
Mantrid
>
 :|
08:50:18
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 Desiny420: 49% of the new exchange, not okcoin
08:50:32
 
<
samO_
>
 brokenmusic: but no deal for him, if he;s involved in this clusterfuck!
08:51:04
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Lao Ban - you know well our background - our investors are invested in many of the prominent existing bitcoin exchanges, and I have been running exchanges for a long time that traded more than 4 times the entire bitcoin market cap, in a single day
08:51:08
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 samO_: well, that's the thing about real world. Criminals get deals and may walk
08:52:05
 
<
Desiny420
>
 well I for one would be cautious about only getting 49% of an exchange if its not all of the world wide exchange. Imagine the exploiting that could be done. You could leach off the customers etc. Even redirect the traffic over to your other exchange.
08:52:09
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I know people look at 49% vs 16.5% and think that 49% is more - though you can not go by percentages - it has to be based on value
08:52:25
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 a bitcoin exchange is very different than a wall street exchange
08:52:32
 
<
sz4dy
>
 johnbetts: if You have been runing such a big bussinesses.. what are You doing here then?
08:52:34
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 bitcoins get stolen and you cant get them back
08:52:42
 
<
samO_
>
 brokenmusic: :(  but not if we demand him being excluded from sunlot's deal and prosecuted the same as mark
08:52:48
 
<
johnbetts
>
 And I am not denegrating OK Coin - Lao Ban introduced me to them, and I support the fact that they are also interested in looking after customers, and have told that to them directly
08:53:10
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 samO_: again, that's the world of the government monopoly on law.
08:53:16
 
<
johnbetts
>
 though they are not offering 49% in OK coin - just the new exchange / restart for Gox customers
08:53:35
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 samO_: you don't control your government or laws. "For the people" is a myth in any country
08:53:45
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I am here, like everyone else, because I believe Bitcoin, and the protocol, is the future
08:54:00
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 I am just trying to keep things clear here.  We are being told that this exchange is being run by Sun Lot and their credentials are being listed—and I am not denigrating their credentials—I am just pointing out that there are unique aspects about running a bitcoin exchange and they have never done this before
08:54:22
 
<
Desiny420
>
 well for sure if we do the okcoin deal we need it to be 49% of OKCoin as well.. otherwise its like owning nothing.
08:54:23
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: can you outline the timeframe in which you expect to 1) receive an answer from the administrator 2) close the deal
08:54:28
 
<
samO_
>
 brokenmusic: i understand that, just saying we demand that johnbetts exclude gay-bouchery from the deal...
08:54:54
 
<
samO_
>
 ...or say why he is IN the deal...
08:54:57
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 samO_: I think they may not want to do it since his cooperation may be crucial
08:55:05
 
<
Hachima
>
 What about all the energy and resources for equipment that are required to support bitcoin?  The future seems to be about being more energy effecient and supporting bitcoin on a worldwide level would require powerconsumption the world is not able to produce.
08:55:10
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Unfortunately the time frame is at the descretion of the Administrator and Japanese courts - be it our deal, OK Coin, or liquidation
08:55:29
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Ok, I just want to touch on something else that was not in my agenda above
08:55:51
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 johnbetts: ok, suppose the administrator says "fine, I approve". What's the timeframe to close the deal and start returning the coins?
08:55:53
 
<
johnbetts
>
 It is great to have an ideal vision of what we want to happen, including retribution and having a path to channel our anger and frustration
08:56:04
 
<
samO_
>
 johnbetts: why are gay-bouchery and jad included in the plan?
08:56:21
 
<
johnbetts
>
 the reality is that that does not close deals - and no matter how much we may wish, we need to work with what we have to get deals done
08:57:36
 
<
johnbetts
>
 If we, or OK Coin, don't get a deal done, then it's liquidation, and then there is no-standing left to go after mark or investigating lost coins - the company is dead, and in Japan it is the only one who has legal standing to do that
08:58:15
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 and as soon as that happens, Mark's face is open season.
08:58:21
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 obligatory joke: you know who else didn't have a timeframe or  an ETA? Mark
08:58:23
 
<
johnbetts
>
 nevermind what happens to customers assets in a liquidation - and I am not trying to do a scare tactic here - though best case it takes a long time to get assets back worst case well I think that has been covered already
08:59:12
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Within hours of Gox shutting down, Brock and I were on the phone with Mark (he owned the company - we had to deal with him) to take it over lock stock and barrel, inhereting all the liabilites and everything
08:59:39
 
<
johnbetts
>
 people just talk about the 1BTC part - they don't seem to talk about that that is what Mark would get - and why would we pay him more to run away?
09:00:00
 
<
johnbetts
>
 We also inherit the hundreds of millions of dollars of loss that we immediately would become responsible for
09:00:06
 
<
carpetron
>
 lot of interesting coin hapenings
09:00:22
 
<
johnbetts
>
 within 7 hrs of speaking to Mark, we had a deal, contracts negotiated, and he pulled out
09:00:29
 
<
Chillance
>
 ok, cool, hey johnbetts .. let me catch up..
09:00:45
 
<
samO_
>
 why would we care about what mark gets?!
09:00:47
 
<
Chillance
>
 nice of you to come in here actually
09:01:01
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 How could you guys have had a deal in place so fast and not consider yourselves insiders?
09:01:02
 
<
johnbetts
>
 we also had a team assembled from within the Bitcoin community, as well as colleagues of mine from my trading background, and forensics experts waiting to get on a plane to tokyo to start the inestigation and rebuild the exchange
09:01:38
 
<
samO_
>
 he can have his cut, but he will be prosecuted anyway... and if he wrongdid, go to jail
09:01:48
 
<
johnbetts
>
 sam: people say why only 1BTC - the person who gets that is the person who owns the shares, and that was Mark - so for those who complain we were not prepared to pay enough for the company fail to realize that would go to Mark, not the customers
09:02:16
 
<
carpetron
>
 yo yo
09:02:21
 
<
sobriket
>
 Johnbetts that argument no longer holds now
09:02:35
 
<
sobriket
>
 in this stage of bankruptcy
09:02:57
 
<
sobriket
>
 i understand it though in precious circumstances
09:03:02
 
<
sobriket
>
 previous
09:03:12
 
<
johnbetts
>
 which argument no longer holds?
09:03:42
 
<
samO_
>
 johnbetts: what is the benefit of gay-bouchery and jad being included? what are their interest? isn't that really the liability having the possible criminals (or at least insiders) on the team?
09:03:46
 
<
EnnnE
>
 @johnbetts: why do you and your investors put up so much effort in getting a hold of mt.gox? you could take all the money you have and build an exchange from scratch. an exchange without debt, without the lawsuits looming over it.
09:04:17
 
<
johnbetts
>
 another statement - I came here to answer questions - as I knew there were many - though unfortunately it is 3am in NY and I have related meetings early in the morning - I will go through a few more steps, answer a few questions, though I will need to sign off
09:04:31
 
<
EnnnE
>
 johnbetts: why do you and your investors put up so much effort in getting a hold of mt.gox? you could take all the money you have and build an exchange from scratch. an exchange without debt, without the lawsuits looming over it.
09:04:34
 
<
johnbetts
>
 and I can come back and answer more - Shaded will coordinate
09:04:44
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 this is cool, I need to go and get my scurity deposit back from my landlord in 30 as well
09:04:59
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 time to get paid!
09:05:15
 
<
EnnnE
>
 johnbetts: your presence here is very much appreciated :-)
09:05:35
 
<
johnbetts
>
 we could go and build a new exchange - though if we did that - who would be challenging the courts to protect the customers intersts, and creating a mechanism for them to earn back their losses, and go after the stolen funds?
09:06:01
 
<
sobriket
>
 Argument about proceeds of sale of business going to mark
09:06:20
 
<
Desiny420
>
 We cares about that 1 BTC
09:06:27
 
<
Desiny420
>
 what does that have to do with me getting my bitcoins back?
09:06:35
 
<
brokenmusic
>
 I guess what people are questioning is that you are a charity organization
09:06:42
 
<
defy_
>
 What experience does sunlot have at running an exchange?
09:06:58
 
<
samO_
>
  johnbetts: can you explain gay-bouchery and jad involments? what is their role? why do you want them on the team?
09:07:00
 
<
EnnnE
>
 johnbetts: don't try to tell me you are doing this for the poor customers of mt.gox
09:07:03
 
<
Hugo2
>
 can anyone update me onto what johnbetts has said about the 16% vs 49% as Im sure someone has asked already?
09:07:26
 
<
johnbetts
>
 no - we are not a charity
09:07:32
 
<
Hugo2
>
 EnnnE, nobody is doing "this" for the poor costumer of gox, its good that people see a business oportunity that also helps us
09:07:42
 
<
johnbetts
>
 we have an extensive investment in well over 30 bitcoin related companies
09:07:44
 
<
Hachima
>
 What software would Sunlot need to develop ion order to run a secure bitcoin exchange and how long would it take to get ready?
09:07:51
 
<
Hugo2
>
 Its good that we have not to resort to charity
09:08:04
 
<
johnbetts
>
 and if they are to do well, we need more people involved in bitcoin, we need the confidence of those currently NOT part of the community to join
09:08:33
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Bitcoin received such bad press - the whole world knows about it, for better or worse, because of what happend to Mt Gox
09:08:47
 
<
defy_
>
 johnbetts: sorry if you're being bombarded with questions, or if you've answered this already, but what i want to know is what technical experience you or your partners have in running an exchange, and if you will make mtgox's wallet addresses public for the comminuty to audit as soon as you receive them.
09:08:58
 
<
fishfish_
>
 we could go and build a new exchange <- OkCoin's plan is to deploy the current one as a package, which I think will be quite cost-effective. This is not about technology, but experience of running bitcoin trading platform
09:09:06
 
<
johnbetts
>
 so for those of you who hold Bitcoin as an investment, or work, own, or are planning to start a bitcoin related business, we all need more people to participate in bitcoin to realize its full potential
09:09:41
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I have been involved in electronic trading Since 2004 - bitcoin is just another asset class, not different to stocks when it comes to trading
09:10:01
 
<
johnbetts
>
 from the security side I have been involved in infrastructure and security for well over 20 years
09:10:35
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I was the co-founder of the first commercial Internet Service Provider in South Africa - and a co-developer of one of the early firewalls built on the TIS toolkit
09:10:36
 
<
defy_
>
 johnbetts so you've built stock exchanges?
09:11:00
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I was also involved in digital certificates and encryption since about the same time
09:11:06
 
<
defy_
>
 saying you've been "involved" in is very vague
09:11:20
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 johnbetts why not try and work with the OkCoin group to come up with the best plan that everybody would agree on?
09:11:47
 
<
defy_
>
 especially when you're up against a company that has a proven track record in running a bitcoin exchange.
09:11:47
 
<
johnbetts
>
 It has been a while since I personally coded anything serious, so I would not claim to have "built" though I was certainly responsible for the developers, the architecture, as well as the intraday trading, risk and operations
09:12:01
 
<
Hachima
>
 Why only state you represent 50k people and not 127k?
09:12:31
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Lao Ban introduced us to the OK Coin group when I was in Tokyo, I thought we had a productive call, and agreed to continue our dialogue, and they asked how they could support our efforts
09:12:36
 
<
Hachima
>
 Will non US residents potentialy be eligible from owning a % of the company?
09:12:44
 
<
Hugo2
>
 johnbetts, I understand those credentials are good and help your case, but if you want a constructive suggestion Bitcoin no-chargeback transmission is a particularity that youve never found before, so Bitcoin is not just like any other tradeable item. Its easier to steal electronically in automated systems. Still, your experience is a good factor.
09:13:04
 
<
samO_
>
 johnbetts: you don't want to answer about gay-bouchery and jad's involment?
09:13:16
 
<
defy_
>
 johnbetts and what about making mtgox's wallet addresses public for a community audit?
09:13:28
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Unfortunately it did not materialize - I wont go into reasons why it did not, because quite frankly I am not sure, though it did not and I do not want to get into a situation where people can perceive me saying negative things about OK Coin
09:13:52
 
<
chrono000
>
 just want to know how will a new exchange be better than the other exchanges. can you turn around the gox name? is there even room for another bitcoin exchange
09:13:52
 
<
Tiraspol
>
 hmm...
09:13:53
 
<
+Shaded
>
 samO_: 06:55 < johnbetts> It is great to have an ideal vision of what we want to happen, including retribution and having a path to channel our anger and frustration
09:13:56
 
<
+Shaded
>
 06:56 < samO_> johnbetts: why are gay-bouchery and jad included in the plan?
09:13:59
 
<
johnbetts
>
 as I said I have been in touch with them several times over the past 2 days, invited them to participate, and wished them all the best if they did not and felt better to go on their own
09:13:59
 
<
+Shaded
>
 06:56 < johnbetts> the reality is that that does not close deals - and no matter how much we may wish, we need to work with what we have to get deals done
09:14:31
 
<
carpetron
>
 i have failed as a human
09:14:38
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Everyone - will be able to participate in our plan - not just those represented by the lawyers representing customers currently working with us
09:14:40
 
<
SuSEno
>
 johnbetts: We also inherit the hundreds of millions of dollars of loss that we immediately would become responsible for <-- not really, after you pay victims with 16% equity. New Gox will be debt free. Right?
09:14:57
 
<
johnbetts
>
 the 50k number are those that are party to this signed agreement - it is not a limitation
09:15:40
 
<
Hachima
>
 can you explain that more? What does it mean to be a party to the agreement? Have these people contacted you?
09:15:58
 
<
johnbetts
>
 their will be no loss liability in the new business - that would be converted by the court into the interest into the rehabilitation fund and the interest into the new business
09:16:06
 
<
defy_
>
 johnbetts and what about making mtgox's wallet addresses public for a community audit??
09:16:31
 
<
johnbetts
>
 that statement was about what we were prepared todo on day one to take over the keys from Mark the morning of Feb 25
09:17:01
 
<
johnbetts
>
 defy_ that is something I would like to do personally, as I feel the community have an important part to play in the recovery
09:17:32
 
<
Hugo2
>
 johnbetts, can you confirm the 16% equity is your offer?
09:17:58
 
<
SuSEno
>
 and also US$ 10 millions taken from customer fund ?
09:18:02
 
<
johnbetts
>
 16.5% - the the parent holding company that will hold all the exchanges we plan for the new entity - not just Tokyo to replace gox
09:18:14
 
<
Hachima
>
 It seems like the 50k number is just a potential list of people and in no way represents people that support you which is trying to be portraied but it is not the truth
09:18:40
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I need to leave in 3minutes - any last questions, and we can arrange to pick up where we left off at another time?
09:18:55
 
<
Chillance
>
 I have one
09:18:59
 
<
Hachima
>
 No response seems to answer my question that I am right then
09:19:10
 
<
Chillance
>
 how likely is it that we can avoid liquidation you think?
09:19:21
 
<
Chillance
>
 I assume this is what we really want at all costs?
09:19:24
 
<
defy_
>
 johnbetts well thats the first good thing i've heard come from your group so far, major alarm bells have been going off for me ever since i've heard of what you guys were trying to do, especially with such piss poor PR. whoever agrees to make the addresses public as soon as they receive them will get my support. The stories need to stop.
09:19:25
 
<
johnbetts
>
 Any numbers are hard to stand by until an independent audit has been done - which is why we have insisted on it
09:19:46
 
<
Hachima
>
 Shaded and John will try to twist th e truth and make it seem like they have support when they don't
09:19:48
 
<
Chillance
>
 reading above a liquidation seems like its all over if that happens..
09:20:14
 
<
Hachima
>
 So for the record John refuses to answer how many people have actully contacted his company voicing support
09:20:33
 
<
Hachima
>
 And Shaded was not accurate in saying 50k people have repsonded in support
09:20:34
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I can't give odds on that - other than to say if we do not try - it wont happen - we have invested considerable resources to date, and are not about to give up that fight that liquidation is not the answer, and our lawyers are working on solutions with that in mind
09:20:53
 
<
defy_
>
 Hachima my guess is not many.
09:20:54
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 Is the 70% figure you quoted to WSJ accurate or not?
09:21:12
 
<
johnbetts
>
 the challenge with liquidation is two fold a) customer assets - or company assets (how the court treats them) and b) standing to go after the lost coin
09:21:14
 
<
defy_
>
 I'm still supporting liquidation
09:21:28
 
<
SuSEno
>
 How much money sunlot willing to invest to rebuild gox?
09:21:29
 
<
Chillance
>
 so, I assume the judges wants some real data on how a liquidation isn't necessary, as someone has a plan that holds up
09:22:22
 
<
johnbetts
>
 The 70% number was done based upon the blocks that we were in touch with, that were organized, which included the OK Coin group who did write a press release to support our efforts that the company not be liquidated
09:22:48
 
<
Chillance
>
 70% is amount of money, not users totally right?
09:22:54
 
<
Lao_Ban_1
>
 did those blocks include Mark or bitcoinbuilder?
09:23:11
 
<
johnbetts
>
 What we worked on since then, was to share a plan with those with lawyers, and encouraged customers to organize and get lawyers so that they could be a part of that proces
09:23:30
 
<
Chillance
>
 what is happening right now btw?
09:23:54
 
<
fishfish_
>
 johnbetts, that is not true, OkCoin did all things as promised to support but you did nothing as it is said. Thus OkCoin made up its mind to make things healthy. <- I just verified this
09:24:13
 
<
Hachima
>
 Was the deal with Mark canceled becasue the document for recovery leaked?
09:24:26
 
<
Hachima
>
 That seems like it would have had a high factor in losing trust
09:24:35
 
<
johnbetts
>
 We have a letter to the court from Mark for support for us to take over as he was not capable of running this procedure, as he proved, though we did NOT include Mark as a beneficiary of ANY recovery efforts
09:25:56
 
<
johnbetts
>
 fishfish - I said the OK Coin discussion of them joining us formally did not materialize - and I said I will not say anything negative, and wrote to them to give them support for their efforts (in the sense that we want the same thing, and if they win, we are just interested in customers being taken care of)
09:26:10
 
<
Chillance
>
 is there a nice summary of it all, in bullet points? would ease the understanding here
09:26:21
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I cant speak for why Mark decided to do what he did in not honoring a contract
09:26:28
 
<
peltier
>
 johnbetts:Is it possible that the dividents be paid in bitcoins?You should understand that making whole the customers to us means getting our coins back,not the current donomination in $
09:26:40
 
<
johnbetts
>
 we are working on that and will be releasing one in the next 24-48 hrs
09:26:42
 
<
Hachima
>
 Was the leaked document produced by your team?
09:27:11
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I need to go now, as previously stated, and will be happy to arrange a time to return
09:27:21
 
<
Chillance
>
 isnt here a hangout today?
09:27:30
 
<
Chillance
>
 or tomorrow for some
09:27:42
 
<
johnbetts
>
 I apologize for not being able to answer all your questions right now, though will come back to do so
09:27:48
 
<
johnbetts
>
 good night everyone
09:27:54
 
<
+Shaded
>
 I'll schedule another time for johnbetts to come in
09:27:57
 
<
+Shaded
>
 Night John
09:28:05
 
<
EnnnE
>
 johnbetts: thanks for coming here and talking to us
09:28:25
 
<
Hachima
>
 Yeah... after hearing more about the canceled contract that leaked document was Johns original plan he proposed to Mark as he was hired as a crisis management expert
09:28:29
 
<
EnnnE
>
 we appreciate that, especially considering the time in new york ;-)
09:29:17
 
<
Lao_ban_
>
 thx John :)
09:29:17
 
<