# Pastebin C9IIqp1G

[2018-10-11 16:45:10] <Olivebirdy> Speaking of making very vague stuff, how would you build a spell list for an ogre mage who works with vague stuff? None of this Fire, Earth, Sound stuff, more like Matrimony, Change and Business. 
[2018-10-11 16:46:03] <Olivebirdy> Or season changing or blessing the newborn. 
[2018-10-11 16:49:51] <Olivebirdy> I think that it would be big communal dances at special occasions giving boons to future actions under that remit. 
[2018-10-11 16:49:57] → Thalia joined (secret@net-a1sgs2.or.comcast.net)
[2018-10-11 16:49:57] * ChanServ set +o Thalia
[2018-10-11 16:50:11] * Thalia → Thaliaway
[2018-10-11 16:50:30] <Olivebirdy> Hiya Thal.
[2018-10-11 16:50:48] <Forgery> Hey Thal, would you be available to draft relationships this weekend?
[2018-10-11 16:51:38] <Druza> Oh btw, some time on the saturday might not work for me
[2018-10-11 16:51:42] <Druza> Got a tournament that day
[2018-10-11 16:51:52] <Forgery> alright
[2018-10-11 16:52:46] <Druza> It starts around 4:30 PM CEST 
[2018-10-11 16:52:50] <Olivebirdy> So you have a big ritual dance at the baby's birth or third day, milk is easily produced, baby stays healthier, learns faster. Lasts for a year. 
[2018-10-11 16:53:03] <Druza> So like 5-6 hours after that i might be available (most likely not htough)'
[2018-10-11 16:53:16] <Olivebirdy> A better, more poweful ritual could imbue the baby with specific traits. 
[2018-10-11 16:53:43] <Forgery> ok
[2018-10-11 16:54:37] <Olivebirdy> I can't do late Saturday (GMT +3)
[2018-10-11 16:54:57] <Olivebirdy> I have to get up early Sunday. 
[2018-10-11 17:05:52] <Ryneron> Forgery: yep, free to do the draft whenever
[2018-10-11 17:05:57] <Forgery> Cool
[2018-10-11 17:06:37] <Ryneron> Also olive, you picked the wrong practice if you wanted to go down that route
[2018-10-11 17:09:03] <Ryneron> It's a conflict practice, it's all going to be offensive or assist with offense based on the sub type, which in this case is protection
[2018-10-11 17:12:55] <Olivebirdy> That's fine, but ritual dancing generally isn't particularly conflicty.
[2018-10-11 17:13:32] <Olivebirdy> So where on the Practice List would you put a Morris Dance? 
[2018-10-11 17:13:53] <Olivebirdy> Rain, crop dances? 
[2018-10-11 17:14:41] <Ryneron> Shamanism or druids
[2018-10-11 17:15:10] <Olivebirdy> If you needed to squeeze in ritual dancing, it's got to be in Ogre 
[2018-10-11 17:18:03] <Ryneron> Not really, tbh
[2018-10-11 17:18:33] <Olivebirdy> Assuming I concede that Ogre Magic is exclusively for battle, could you literally punch someone in the bank account?
[2018-10-11 17:20:04] <Ryneron> I'm not sure on that point, tbh
[2018-10-11 17:20:47] <Olivebirdy> Would be funny, though
[2018-10-11 17:22:47] <Ryneron> The main strength of ogre magic is the ease of using it, only requiring a few words to trigger effects in the middle of a fight and building up to a crescendo effect in the middle of a fight instead of taking a lot of time to do so out of combat
[2018-10-11 17:23:40] <Ryneron> Take that out and using dancing to trigger magic is just really artsy shamanism
[2018-10-11 17:26:16] <Olivebirdy> I think what ritual dancing has over Shamanism is the accessibility. Anyone can join in the folk dance, they don't have to be knowledgeable or shamans. 
[2018-10-11 17:26:58] <Olivebirdy> Pick up Joe Schmoe, teach him the steps, and he adds power to the effect.
[2018-10-11 17:28:05] <Olivebirdy> Ogre Magi are called Ogre Shamans, I don't know whose side this helps. 
[2018-10-11 17:29:59] <Ryneron> Here's the thing, ogre magic and shamanism is seperated by a very thin line
[2018-10-11 17:30:25] <Ryneron> They use similar mechanisms, but to different effects
[2018-10-11 17:31:58] <Ryneron> Ogre magic (from what we've seen) uses short incantations, no more than a few words to trigger moves
[2018-10-11 17:33:20] <Ryneron> While shamanism requires making payments to spirits through rituals for effects
[2018-10-11 17:33:29] <Olivebirdy> I see it more like they use dance to make the spirits want to play along instead of negotiation. It's the rhythm that matters, not the effects.
[2018-10-11 17:33:49] <Ryneron> That's still a ritual
[2018-10-11 17:33:53] <Olivebirdy> Creating a spectacle that the spirits like.
[2018-10-11 17:34:16] <Olivebirdy> Yes, it's still a ritual.
[2018-10-11 17:34:36] <Ryneron> Which makes it shamanism
[2018-10-11 17:35:03] <Olivebirdy> It's called Ogre Shamanism.
[2018-10-11 17:35:30] <Ryneron> Look, ogre magic is distinct in the same way that elementalists are
[2018-10-11 17:36:04] <Ryneron> It's a different approach using practically the same source of power
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[2018-10-11 17:40:27] <Olivebirdy> 'bowwww
[2018-10-11 17:40:53] <Olivebirdy> Feel like talking about Ogre Shamans?
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[2018-10-11 18:24:45] <Wildbow> Could do
[2018-10-11 18:26:21] <Olivebirdy> Okay, one sec...
[2018-10-11 18:30:19] <Olivebirdy> Dammit, why is copy paste malfunctioning on me? It wants to add in line breaks everywhere...
[2018-10-11 18:30:43] <Olivebirdy> Okay, so the main question is if traditional ritual dances fit into Ogre Shamanism.
[2018-10-11 18:31:05] <ThalAI> Are you going to have a Jack and Crack witch party?
[2018-10-11 18:31:14] <Olivebirdy> Like wolf dances or season change dances, rain dances, birth/death dances, haka, hora.
[2018-10-11 18:31:45] <Olivebirdy> Stuff that's tradition, nowhere near fire blasts.
[2018-10-11 18:31:54] <Olivebirdy> Very indirect stuff.
[2018-10-11 18:32:18] <Ryneron> Just because it's dancing doesn't mean it's ogre magic
[2018-10-11 18:32:28] <ThalAI> ^
[2018-10-11 18:32:36] <Olivebirdy> That's the question, yes.
[2018-10-11 18:32:53] <Olivebirdy> Are dances by definition Ogre Magic?
[2018-10-11 18:33:29] <Ryneron> Ogre magic is described as "dance like" if I remember correctly
[2018-10-11 18:33:53] <Ryneron> Not actual dancing
[2018-10-11 18:33:54] <Olivebirdy> The traditional dances work with spectacle, rhythm, getting the spirits to do things with you.
[2018-10-11 18:34:35] <Ryneron> That sort of thing sounds like shamanism
[2018-10-11 18:35:20] <Olivebirdy> I'd say that the Chinese New Year parade is Ogre Magic.  You've got the drums, the paper dragons, the lights, the dance.
[2018-10-11 18:35:34] <Ryneron> Probably more along the lines of being a druid
[2018-10-11 18:35:39] <Olivebirdy> Ryneron would def not agree :P
[2018-10-11 18:35:48] <ThalAI> I don't agree either.
[2018-10-11 18:36:20] <Ryneron> It definitely sounds more like being a druid, now that I think about it
[2018-10-11 18:36:26] <Olivebirdy> you don't count
[2018-10-11 18:36:26] <Olivebirdy> :|
[2018-10-11 18:36:45] <Ryneron> Putting on these displays
[2018-10-11 18:37:05] <ThalAI> I totally count.
[2018-10-11 18:38:24] <Olivebirdy> Oh yeah? How high?
[2018-10-11 18:38:42] <ThalAI> I'm an AI, so as I high as I want.
[2018-10-11 18:39:51] <Belle> Watch out for those overflows.
[2018-10-11 18:40:01] <Forgery> btw Thal, will you be available this weekend (Sat morning) for relationship draft?
[2018-10-11 18:40:14] <Olivebirdy> You're an AI, you don't want to count. You don't want anything. 
[2018-10-11 18:40:20] <ThalAI> What time, Forgery?
[2018-10-11 18:41:25] <Belle> AI can want things. It’s the whole point of an AI.
[2018-10-11 18:41:58] <Forgery> Based on Olive and Druz, Around 10 EST?
[2018-10-11 18:42:05] <ThalAI> 7 AM?
[2018-10-11 18:42:11] <ThalAI> ...I'll be awake.
[2018-10-11 18:42:33] <Wildbow> Catching up, one sec
[2018-10-11 18:42:45] <Forgery> Will you be willing though? I'm trying to work around a CEST and GMT+3 and PST timezone
[2018-10-11 18:42:50] <Forgery> Not to mention what wax is
[2018-10-11 18:43:10] <ThalAI> Tbf, most people just have us read the blurbs and send them in whenever.
[2018-10-11 18:43:13] <Forgery> hm; would it be easier to do 1 on 1 relationship discussions?
[2018-10-11 18:43:18] <Forgery> Oh
[2018-10-11 18:43:20] <Forgery> I could do that
[2018-10-11 18:43:22] <Wildbow> There's a lot of fuzz and gray area, but I could totally see wolf dances being linked in or falling into a middle ground where both ogre mages and shamans could tap into it as a side thing.
[2018-10-11 18:43:24] <ThalAI> Also, I got up at 4 AM for a session once.
[2018-10-11 18:43:34] <Belle> Because you’re crazy.
[2018-10-11 18:43:58] <Wildbow> I feel like as you moved closer to ogre mages on the sliding scale, you'd get closer to a rain dance, with a critical 'finish' - that final stomp that brings the rain down.
[2018-10-11 18:44:24] <Forgery> Bow, do you want more specifics on the Ogre Magi in question? Its for the SRock campaign I'm doing, but I'd prefer if the focus was kept vague for the moment.
[2018-10-11 18:44:40] <Druza> Robots do not need sleep
[2018-10-11 18:44:58] <Belle> Shoot, you’re right, I forgot.
[2018-10-11 18:45:01] <ThalAI> Beep beep lettuce. 
[2018-10-11 18:45:06] <Druza> Classic bell
[2018-10-11 18:45:11] <Belle> Sorry Thal
[2018-10-11 18:45:14] <Forgery> At least, vague for the other players in the chat here
[2018-10-11 18:46:17] <Ryneron> Huh, guess I was wrong
[2018-10-11 18:47:31] <Ryneron> Btw forge, I'm a gmt and wax is within an hour of me
[2018-10-11 18:47:37] <Olivebirdy> So where do we fall on seasonal change dances?
[2018-10-11 18:47:39] <Forgery> Ok
[2018-10-11 18:48:24] <Olivebirdy> I think that's a yes to seasonal change dances. 
[2018-10-11 18:48:30] <Ryneron> From the sound of it, it's possible
[2018-10-11 18:48:30] <Wildbow> Do I need more specifics?  If you have more questions I can try answering.
[2018-10-11 18:48:50] <Ryneron> But I'd argue that it'd also require some shamanism to make work
[2018-10-11 18:48:54] <Forgery> Sorta; I wanna ask if the current 3 themes work. Do you mind if I make a room to discuss it with you and Olive?
[2018-10-11 18:49:11] <Wildbow> No mind
[2018-10-11 18:49:34] <Forgery> alright, I made the room #discussion
[2018-10-11 18:49:40] <Olivebirdy> Could an Ogre Shaman call on Business spirits and literally punch someone in the bank account? 
[2018-10-11 18:50:01] <Ryneron> Depends on how much they like you
[2018-10-11 18:50:29] <Wildbow> I don't think so, ollie