# Pastebin 9RUeZJmP
12:03 PM <~barredowl> so uh, should we start with our first impressions then?
12:03 PM <+cybersqyd> this is delightfully dark.
12:04 PM <~barredowl> yeah, this is a very uncomfortable read.
12:04 PM <~barredowl> it's very good.
12:04 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:04 PM <Pighead> I think I've miss something.
12:04 PM <BlueJones> Honestly, when I first read this, I didn't understand any of it due to my lack of inferring stuff until I read what the author said and then re-reading this its very uncomfortable
12:04 PM <+cybersqyd> Pighead, yeah?
12:04 PM <~barredowl> there's quite a bit to delve into here content-wise but that's basically my feelings right now.
12:04 PM <+cybersqyd> the mifepristone is such a powerful ending.
12:05 PM <+cybersqyd> like, often when critting stuff i'm like 'this needs more of a gut punch at the end' and this nails that.
12:05 PM <red3> This plays one-thousand percent into pure atmosphere, which is very well done, but there is also some great imagery here along with some subtle actions as described by the document. This does take a massive hit to the clinical tone though, which seems to be more like the first draft of a researcher documenting their experiments with an anomaly they just discovered.
12:05 PM <~barredowl> yeah
12:05 PM <+cybersqyd> hm
12:05 PM — DrMoned aahhhh I missed the DOA skip, damn
12:05 PM <+cybersqyd> i don't really have any issues with the tone tbh
12:05 PM <Pighead> It's like the first of this meeting, but now, there's not even the "cabinet of curiosities" part. I explore the room of a kid, but there seems to have nothing else.
12:05 PM <red3> cybersqyd: The lack of a footnote on that fascinates me. The simple act of the reader having to look up what that is brings them into the story just enough to have that impact rammed into them like a knife in the chest.
12:05 PM <~barredowl> the animal crossing paragraph feels like it's in the wrong tense tbh
12:06 PM <Pighead> So, I think I have missed something.
12:06 PM <BlueJones> I assume mifepristone is a sleeping drug?
12:06 PM <~barredowl> it's used for abortions
12:06 PM <red3> It's a drug one takes to abort a fetus.
12:06 PM <~barredowl> .g mifepristone
12:06 PM <@Secretary_Helen> barredowl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone - Mifepristone - Wikipedia: Mifepristone, also known as RU-486, is a medication typically used in combination with misoprostol to bring about an abortion during pregnancy.
12:06 PM <+cybersqyd> Pighead, so, it's about scp-231 being contained in a room; and like, it's all about like. the crushing isolation and solitude; and the contrast between like, them being a kid and the horrible stuff done to them
12:07 PM <Pighead> Oh, hey, wait, I had checked the translation of "mifepristone" and it seems to be... yeah, a medication for what you say.
12:07 PM <Pighead> Oh.
12:07 PM <Pighead> Oh. OK.
12:07 PM <+cybersqyd> Like. The unidentified substance implied to be on the plush is likely either blood or semen.
12:07 PM <~barredowl> this seems like an implicit critique on 231 in turn
12:07 PM <Pighead> I think I've understanding, now. This is pretty horrible.
12:07 PM <BlueJones> See, I'm too much of a dumbass to even think of what you guys are saying
12:08 PM <~barredowl> in addition to the shirts being heavily stained
12:08 PM <+cybersqyd> BlueJones, tbf I had the advantage of being around when Niles and ARD where discussing it
12:08 PM <Pighead> OK, yeah, I figure how it's like. And, you right, it's pretty dark.
12:08 PM <~barredowl> this gives me a lot of uncomfortable thoughts about one of my parent's houses. really crusty, everything's stained & sticky
12:08 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:09 PM <BlueJones> cybersqyd: lucky :P
12:09 PM <red3> This relies immensely on symbolism, so I can understand your confusion, Blue. It requires a lot of theory crafting in order to understand what it's actually trying to say.
12:09 PM <~barredowl> except accentuated to the worst degree
12:09 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:09 PM <+cybersqyd> it's...extremely about piecing together what's happening
12:09 PM <+cybersqyd> and like. there's nothing explicitly horrifying until you put the pieces together?
12:10 PM <+cybersqyd> I think my favourite random detail here is "The paint has no anomalous properties, but contains dangerous amounts of lead and has peeled heavily."
12:10 PM <~barredowl> so do y'all want to talk about this in relation to 231? cause we talked about that a little earlier on in RRT history
12:10 PM <red3> That's where I feel like the non-clinical prose works here a bit. Pseudo-describing the actions that the anomaly who lived here took during their day-to-day life helps to accomplish that goal.
12:10 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:10 PM <BlueJones> It wasn't until I asked site19 and Niles "What is the point of this?" and then they told me about its implications
12:10 PM <~barredowl> and that's a lot about what the modern conception of DoA is, to some extent
12:11 PM <~barredowl> 3220 is sorta a re-interpretation of 3220
12:11 PM <~barredowl> i mean 173
12:11 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:12 PM <red3> Well, in comparison to 231, this is an entirely different story. 231 is about the lengths that the Foundation is willing to go to in order to fight a demon which they can't even name and describe, whereas this is just a story about a girl being contained in horrid conditions for no apparent reason. It's what the Foundation is if it wasn't actively fighting for the future of humanity.
12:12 PM <~barredowl> this kinda plays into an interesting side of DoA, in that it gives an opportunity for the foundation to inspect itself in the same clinical uncompromising tone that it does for any other anomaly.
12:12 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:13 PM <~barredowl> and in that way these pieces could serve as commentary about certain parts of the foundation?
12:13 PM <+cybersqyd> yeah
12:14 PM <red3> That's where this succeeds where 3790 fails, because the theme of containing humans being kind of cruel has been done to death already, whereas the concept of the Foundation fighting for no apparent reason and doing incredibly cruel things to children for no reason is very fresh and interesting. It's completely antithetical to the core mission of the Foundation itself; It's a Foundation that's both cold and cruel.
12:14 PM <~barredowl> just my 2 cents there
12:14 PM <~barredowl> red3: indeed. this is also very upfront about its internal critique of the foundation
12:15 PM <red3> Well, I don't think this is so much a critique of the Foundation as it is a critique about the DoA. Again, the Foundation is somewhat justified in doing all of this because of the things that they're fighting. Anything can be considered moral if the alternative is the death of all life as we know it.
12:15 PM <+cybersqyd> I think there's, in some ways, something very human about the Foundation in 5832
12:15 PM <~barredowl> sorta
12:15 PM <~barredowl> yeah
12:15 PM <+cybersqyd> Like. It doesn't feel like a big, powerful organisation but something small, and panicked and uncertain
12:15 PM <~barredowl> more a critique of old foundation than new foundation
12:16 PM <red3> cybersqyd: Exactly.
12:18 PM <+cybersqyd> hm
12:18 PM <red3> Are there any other points people would like to make or should we just go to our final thoughts?
12:18 PM <~barredowl> so yeah, this definitely does a little more for me than DoA does
12:18 PM <+cybersqyd> i don't actually know if I like this
12:18 PM <~barredowl> huh, how so
12:18 PM <Pighead> Well, in all cases, this is the type of skips who function heavily with symbolism and thinking and all that.
12:18 PM <BlueJones> Although one must wonder if this is an anomaly that was spawned because of this girl, if this was a made thing by DoA for unknown reasons, or if this is a room that displays no sound and the DoA took over it.... and I don't know if I'd actually want the answer to that
12:18 PM <~barredowl> the article?
12:18 PM <+cybersqyd> iunno. like it's something i've felt since i first read the article
12:18 PM <Pighead> Yeah, the article.
12:19 PM <~barredowl> asking cyber here
12:19 PM <+cybersqyd> and. like. i get objectively how all the pieces fit together and i understand why it works mechanically and stuff and how it plays with my emotions
12:19 PM <+cybersqyd> but something about it feels...off
12:19 PM <red3> What is it missing specifically? A motivation? A conclusion?
12:20 PM <+cybersqyd> i don't really know.
12:20 PM <+cybersqyd> I think, in some ways, the absence of 231 completely feels wrong here?
12:20 PM <~barredowl> i guess i can sorta feel where you're coming from, but at the same time not really
12:20 PM <Pighead> I admit that I haven't found the same critique of the Foundation like you found, in fact, it's really the think that this seems to be 231's room and it's so innocent and looks so playful and so full of joy and on the other hand... 231.
12:21 PM <Pighead> This is that who sticks on me. And I needed to having an explanation for fully understanding it, so...
12:22 PM <~barredowl> cybersqyd: see, idk if that feels wrong to me
12:22 PM <+cybersqyd> I think, in some ways, this perhaps takes the emotions too far and ends up becoming desensitising a little? Iunno. I'm just generally undecided about this as a whole.
12:22 PM <+cybersqyd> barredowl, tbh me neither
12:22 PM <~barredowl> yeh
12:22 PM <Pighead> I think that I will probably need to re-read it a second time for having real thoughts about it.
12:23 PM <BlueJones> Pighead: I hear that. But for me, I never really drew on 231 till now and yet the horror was still there, hence why I upvoted lightly cause the horror was made 10x worse as the more I read into it
12:23 PM <red3> cybersqyd: I think that's part of the reason I like it. It's the epitome of the existential nihilism that is the Foundation's mission. While something like 231 is the raging storm, with everything being shaped around actively doing something terrible to a child, this feels like the cold aftermath where everything is destroyed and there's really no purpose to continuing anymore.
12:23 PM <+cybersqyd> mm
12:23 PM <Pighead> This is something that are, for me, much more interesting than I thought and in that case, I need to re-read it.
12:24 PM <~barredowl> hm
12:24 PM <~barredowl> i like red's interpretation quite a bit
12:26 PM <red3> Any other thoughts?
12:26 PM <~barredowl> i don't think so, think i've covered all my bases
12:27 PM <BlueJones> Nope, I've spoken my thoughts and it maintains its upvote from me, because now I understand more of this due to this meeting and its changed from light to medium upvote