{"body":"11:10 AM <~barredowl> so, uh, do we want to just jump into some observations for this talk?\r\n11:10 AM <+cybersqyd> sure\r\n11:10 AM <~barredowl> i'm... really unsure on how to lead into a conversation about 173 in relation to DoA\r\n11:11 AM <~barredowl> lol\r\n11:11 AM <@Calibri_Bold> barredowl: I think we should read some actual DoA articles beforehand.\r\n11:11 AM Are we looking at it as 1 topic\r\n11:11 AM <+cybersqyd> uh well, obviously this is gonna be less about the DoA\r\n11:11 AM We can largely treat this article as independent for now.\r\n11:11 AM I thought 173 was independant\r\n11:11 AM <~barredowl> okay\r\n11:11 AM <+cybersqyd> this is more a setup to the next two articles which are about 173\r\n11:11 AM <~barredowl> we should just treat it like an independent article\r\n11:11 AM <~barredowl> so\r\n11:11 AM <@Gee0765> 173 is unironically the most original article on the site.\r\n11:11 AM <~barredowl> first-ish impressions?\r\n11:11 AM <+cybersqyd> 173 has a lot of really nice details\r\n11:11 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Gee0765: I mean, yeah.\r\n11:12 AM Gee0765: I have no idea what you mean by that.\r\n11:12 AM <+cybersqyd> like, i actually kinda like it\r\n11:12 AM <@Gee0765> I mean exactly what I said\r\n11:12 AM Gee0765: While technically true, that doesn't make it good.\r\n11:12 AM <~barredowl> i sorta do like it myself\r\n11:12 AM <@Gee0765> SharpEmbrace: i didn't say it was\r\n11:12 AM <+cybersqyd> by virtue of being a completely new piece, it's more original than anything else on the site\r\n11:12 AM <~barredowl> there's something i kinda like about the note-y tone\r\n11:12 AM <+cybersqyd> since everything is kinda, derivative of this\r\n11:12 AM i didn't say you did\r\n11:12 AM <@Gee0765> Everything 173 does was done by 173 first\r\n11:12 AM Gee0765: What do you mean by \"original\"? Is it that nobody has ever done that concept? Is it that the creation of the format is wholly original? You're being really vague right now.\r\n11:13 AM <@Gee0765> yes\r\n11:13 AM 🤔\r\n11:13 AM <@Gee0765> The format more than anything\r\n11:13 AM killing people when they close their eyes isn't original, but the format is\r\n11:13 AM <@Gee0765> but more the specific details of the format\r\n11:13 AM <~barredowl> which is something i like with things such as asci or in-universe early foundation works\r\n11:13 AM <+cybersqyd> There's a lot of little details you can consider: the two persons making eye contact and line of sight aspects; the floor contents\r\n11:13 AM <+cybersqyd> even just the lingo?\r\n11:13 AM <@Gee0765> SharpEmbrace: i don't consider the statue itself the important part of 173\r\n11:13 AM <@Calibri_Bold> ^\r\n11:13 AM <@Gee0765> and I don't think it's meant to be\r\n11:14 AM That is wholly reasonable\r\n11:14 AM <+cybersqyd> using weird phrases like 'HCML' and 'Class 4 hazardous' and even 'Euclid' are all really nice touches to really like, sell this\r\n11:14 AM <@Gee0765> The interesting part is the organisation implied by the format\r\n11:14 AM So, is there another GoI format that you would consider to be better than the original SCP documentation? Because if we're judging originality based off of that, then that means that every single GoI is just as original.\r\n11:14 AM <+cybersqyd> Gee: yeah I can agree\r\n11:14 AM <~barredowl> i don't think the object class was part of the original article\r\n11:14 AM <@Gee0765> it wasn't\r\n11:14 AM <@Calibri_Bold> It wasn't.\r\n11:14 AM <~barredowl> oka\r\n11:14 AM <~barredowl> okay*\r\n11:14 AM <@Gee0765> red3: other GoI-formats are also inspired by the SCP format existing\r\n11:15 AM <@Calibri_Bold> What's really cool is how much modern articles are still grounded in the original 173 format to this day.\r\n11:15 AM How are they inspired by the SCP format? There have been plenty of other formats that share a lot of traits with 173 from character sheets, government documents, etc.\r\n11:15 AM <@Calibri_Bold> The only major change to the base format has been the object class.\r\n11:15 AM <@Gee0765> They exist as a result of the SCP format\r\n11:16 AM <@Gee0765> the idea of cataloguing /anomalous/ objects in a specific format was created by 173\r\n11:16 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Plus, the idea of even /using/ a \"format\" to tell stories, in the way 173 does- yeah.\r\n11:17 AM <@Gee0765> yeah, the fiction aspect is important here\r\n11:17 AM <@Calibri_Bold> What Gee said.\r\n11:17 AM But that's more as a result of the community, rather than SCP-173 itself. People mainly got on board once other popular articles like 682 were being created. It wasn't just a bunch of people jumping in through 173.\r\n11:17 AM <~barredowl> one thing i will note is that the actual term SCP-173 isn't used as much in this article. there's a lot of Item and Object and such\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> the community, inspired by articles inspired by 173\r\n11:18 AM And on the point that the GoI formats exist as a result of the SCP format, one could also say that the SCP format exists because of a lot of other formats.\r\n11:18 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> it leads back to 173\r\n11:18 AM <~barredowl> there's a mechanical side i kinda like to this article that i don't really see in newer articles, though i do think that change might be a net good\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> yes, it was inspired by a lot of other irl formats. but it's the first thing to create fiction using the format\r\n11:19 AM <@Gee0765> which is a much bigger leap than say, moving from the SCP format to the GOC format\r\n11:19 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Side note: the GOC format is awful.\r\n11:19 AM <@Gee0765> the change from non-fiction to fiction\r\n11:19 AM You can't say that something is the most original piece of fiction in a specific format just because it was the first of that format. That's like saying that the first story to ever use diary entries is more groundbreaking than anything that will ever come after it.\r\n11:20 AM <@Gee0765> original=\\=groundbreaking\r\n11:20 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: That's a poor example anyway, because diaries already exist to tell stories from real life.\r\n11:21 AM Calibri_Bold: But they can also be used to tell stories in general. Things which science can't exactly explained are also documented, so you could say that the SCP format exists to tell stories inspired form real life as well.\r\n11:21 AM <@Gee0765> and I think I would argue that 173 is the most groundbreaking\r\n11:22 AM <@Gee0765> with maybe 2000 in second place\r\n11:22 AM <@Gee0765> and something like 231 in third\r\n11:22 AM 2000 was definately groundbreaking for the wiki\r\n11:22 AM *definitely\r\n11:22 AM <~barredowl> 2000 was very groundbreaking\r\n11:22 AM <@Calibri_Bold> How so?\r\n11:22 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I'm not denying it or anything.\r\n11:22 AM groundbreaking within the wiki, not so much outside\r\n11:22 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I just haven't looked at 2000 in the context of the rest of the wiki.\r\n11:22 AM I don't really see how those are groundbreaking besides them just being popular and used a lot as a tool to fix plot holes.\r\n11:23 AM For 2000 especially.\r\n11:23 AM Not so much for 231.\r\n11:23 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: What would you call \"groundbreaking\" then?\r\n11:23 AM <@Gee0765> The way people saw SCPs pretty much changed entirely after 2000\r\n11:23 AM <@Gee0765> ask anyone who was around at the time\r\n11:23 AM Change in style, XACTS, the temporal stuff becoming bigger, large world builing, great prose\r\n11:23 AM <~barredowl> it marked a pretty huge jump for the site's standards as a whole\r\n11:23 AM <@Gee0765> they'd likely be able to explain it better\r\n11:23 AM i am hesitant to comment on events i did not witness\r\n11:23 AM <@Gee0765> but if you ask any veteran what article had the biggest impact while they were on the site, most will say 2000\r\n11:24 AM <@Gee0765> SharpEmbrace: I'm just repeating what I've heard from people around at the time\r\n11:24 AM i get that\r\n11:24 AM Calibri_Bold: Something that is groundbreaking is something which uses the format to its full storytelling capacity and/or finds a new way to interpret that format to expand its ability to tell stories even further.\r\n11:25 AM <@Gee0765> such as?\r\n11:25 AM <~barredowl> 093 could be considered groundbreaking\r\n11:25 AM <~barredowl> i think i'm kinda getting ahead of myself though\r\n11:25 AM <@Calibri_Bold> > something which uses the format to its full storytelling capacity\r\n11:25 AM <@Calibri_Bold> That's a whole lot of articles, then.\r\n11:26 AM <+cybersqyd> mmm this argument feels largely tangential to the article at hand\r\n11:26 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I mean, I could say that 4645 uses the format to its own full storytelling capacity.\r\n11:26 AM <~barredowl> yeah i was kinda thinking that too but eh\r\n11:26 AM <~barredowl> don't want to limit discussion\r\n11:26 AM cybersqyd: true, but i don't think 173 itself has all that much to talk about?\r\n11:26 AM <@Gee0765> I'm not sure if that's necessarily an issue?\r\n11:26 AM <@Gee0765> there is discussion\r\n11:26 AM What was that one collaboration SCP? The title was something like \"The Great Big SCP Collaboration\" or something like that. I feel like that interpretation of the format is probably one of the best I've seen on the wiki so far, although there have been better. It is ultimately a subjective measure.\r\n11:26 AM <@Gee0765> of course if people do want to move on that's cool\r\n11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> SharpEmbrace, i mean yeah; the intention with 173 was that we wouldn't spend long on it, just touch on it briefly before moving on\r\n11:27 AM ah, that's fair\r\n11:27 AM <~barredowl> .s great big collaboration\r\n11:27 AM <@Secretary_Helen> barredowl: I'm sorry, I couldn't find anything.\r\n11:27 AM <~barredowl> .s great big scp\r\n11:27 AM <@Secretary_Helen> barredowl: I'm sorry, I couldn't find anything.\r\n11:27 AM <@Gee0765> I'm not familiar with that one\r\n11:27 AM <~barredowl> yeah me neither\r\n11:28 AM SCP-3493\r\n11:28 AM <@Secretary_Helen> red3: SCP-3493: The Great SCP Foundation Collaboration (Rating: +199. Written 1 year ago By: CyrusFiredawn) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3493\r\n11:28 AM Hi sorry I totally spaced I got caught up with critiques\r\n11:28 AM <+cybersqyd> Diana: no worries; you didn't miss much :3\r\n11:28 AM cybersqyd: alright! :3\r\n11:28 AM This is a very blunt example since most of the format screw is just using different variations of the SCP format, but you see what I mean. It even manipulates the format itself in order to further tell its story.\r\n11:29 AM <+cybersqyd> We've mostly been looking at 173, and discussing like, what counts as original\r\n11:29 AM <@Gee0765> so manipulating the format is more groundbreaking than creating it?\r\n11:29 AM SCP-173 didn't create the format. It build on the shoulders of other formats to make something original.\r\n11:29 AM <@Secretary_Helen> red3: SCP-173: The Original (Rating: +6107. Written 11 years ago By: moto42) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-173\r\n11:29 AM How does this not do the same?\r\n11:29 AM <@Gee0765> it did create the format\r\n11:30 AM <@Gee0765> yes, it was likely inspired by other scientific documents\r\n11:30 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: And 3493 also built on the shoulders of an existing format to make something original.\r\n11:30 AM <@Gee0765> but it created the SCP format as its own thing\r\n11:30 AM Well yes, but you're saying it like the concept of having a government document monsters is entirely original.\r\n11:30 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: It isn't, but the use of their actual documentation as the primary means of telling stories and building that universe is.\r\n11:30 AM Calibri_Bold: Exactly. How does 3493 not have the same level of originality than 173? Or even more, since it creates more than one unique format in the article.\r\n11:31 AM <@Gee0765> what cal said\r\n11:31 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: Because of what I just said.\r\n11:32 AM <+cybersqyd> i think y'all are attempting to treat 'originality' as an objective thing and it's not\r\n11:32 AM <@Calibri_Bold> cybersqyd: It kind of is though?\r\n11:32 AM Calibri_Bold: 173 wasn't written with the purpose of building the universe though. The author themselves stated that it was an entirely independent piece. With what I think you're saying, the only way that something is original is if it's popular enough that people build off of its concept.\r\n11:32 AM I've never actually read 173, never been in tune with it much\r\n11:32 AM red3: does intent matteR?\r\n11:33 AM <~barredowl> hm.\r\n11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> Diana: it's a pretty short read\r\n11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> it does fun things\r\n11:33 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: It wasn't created with the purpose of making an entire expanded universe, but it was created with the purpose of telling the story of this universe through its documentation.\r\n11:33 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Of course Moto didn't think an entire wiki would be created from this.\r\n11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> Cal: it's sort of but not really cos like, you can't easily measure it? Like, it's clear red3 is valuing remixing as being more original than y'all are; and like. neither of you have to be right here?\r\n11:34 AM Calibri_Bold: Yeah, I agree with that. Just like how 3493 created a new format in order to tell the story of its universe through its documentation.\r\n11:34 AM just read it\r\n11:34 AM <+cybersqyd> Diana: what'd you think?\r\n11:34 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: But the use of a format itself to tell the story of its universe was from 173.\r\n11:35 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Sure, 3493 used a \"new\" format.\r\n11:35 AM cybersqyd: You're differentiating the SCP format from being a remix of other things, though. What makes it independent from the things that inspired it? How is it not just another remix?\r\n11:35 AM personally, i don't care about the format itself that much\r\n11:35 AM cybersqyd: personally, it doesn't really do much for me. I understand how it would be something that was interesting at the time that it was made\r\n11:35 AM <@Calibri_Bold> But 173 was the first to use /a/ format.\r\n11:35 AM i don't care what format it's in, 173 is boring to me\r\n11:35 AM Sure it was the first, but so what?\r\n11:35 AM <@Calibri_Bold> SharpEmbrace: I mean, it's kind of the part of 173 that matters, I'd say.\r\n11:35 AM where was 173 originally posted?\r\n11:35 AM <+cybersqyd> red3: I mean, I never said it's not a remix; just that Cal et al are arguing from a place where they're treating it as an original thing\r\n11:35 AM <@Gee0765> because those are remixed /SCP/ formats\r\n11:35 AM <+cybersqyd> DianaBerry, 4chan\r\n11:35 AM <+TARS> Those Are Remixed /SCP/\r\n11:35 AM Calibri_Bold: Okay, I don't know what you mean by \"using the format itself to tell the story\". The formatting sections do the exact same thing in 3493.\r\n11:36 AM <@Gee0765> Lmao tars\r\n11:36 AM posted on /x/\r\n11:36 AM <+cybersqyd> Diana: I get it being boring; there's really not a lot of meat to it\r\n11:36 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: I mean that 173 uses in-universe documentation as the primary means of building a world.\r\n11:36 AM <@Calibri_Bold> And it was the first to do something like that.\r\n11:36 AM if the best thing about a piece of writing is that it was the first to do what it does, it's probably worse than most of the things that also do what it does\r\n11:37 AM would people agree on this?\r\n11:37 AM Yeah, it's just a basic scary object. If i read this back then with no knowledge of scp, i don't think I'd be interested in the universe by reading this piece alone\r\n11:37 AM <~barredowl> probably\r\n11:37 AM <@Gee0765> ignoring the fact that technically you can't speak objectively on the quality of writing\r\n11:37 AM purely as an assessment of its writing quality\r\n11:37 AM 173 was absolutely not the first to use documentation apparently written from within its world to tell the story. There's (again) diary entries, fictional essays like A Modest Proposal, and a whole bunch of other formats.\r\n11:37 AM Gee0765: hence probably\r\n11:37 AM <@Gee0765> SharpEmbrace: then i agree\r\n11:38 AM <+cybersqyd> Diana: mm yeah I can see that; I think it sets up some interesting stuff so I could see it being compelling in like, a creepypasta forum but *shrugs*\r\n11:38 AM <@Calibri_Bold> SharpEmbrace: Except we're not arguing that 173 is even good.\r\n11:38 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I'm saying that it's original.\r\n11:38 AM Calibri_Bold: yes, i'm saying that it's bad and that i don't care whether it's original\r\n11:38 AM Okay, one thing I want to make sure I understand perfectly clear. Do you think that the SCP format is entirely original or just a remix of the things that inspired it?\r\n11:39 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: I think that that's kind of a loaded question, to be honest.\r\n11:39 AM How so?\r\n11:39 AM <@Gee0765> I wouldn't call it a remix, per se\r\n11:39 AM red3: i believe it is inspired by various things, but also has original aspects\r\n11:39 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Because it was certainly inspired by existing documentation, but that doesn't mean that it's a remix of those things.\r\n11:40 AM i mean, remixes can also contain original aspects\r\n11:40 AM but that's semantics\r\n11:40 AM <@Gee0765> Generally a remix is like, heavily based on one specific thing\r\n11:40 AM <@Calibri_Bold> And the only two options aren't just \"entirely original\" and \"remix of other things\".\r\n11:40 AM <@Gee0765> like the remixed scp formats are heavily based on the scp format\r\n11:40 AM <@Gee0765> while this is inspired by multiple things but isn't a remix of any one specifically\r\n11:41 AM cybersqyd: yeah. it sets up interesting stuff, but in a way 173 just sells it as another creepypasta thing \r\n11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:41 AM thing is, i don't see this as setting up the universe in an interesting way\r\n11:41 AM Let's just drop the term then. Do you think that the SCP format was created without any influence whatsoever or were there things that inspired it?\r\n11:41 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: Of course there were things that inspired it.\r\n11:42 AM it implies the existence of a universe that could be interesting, but doesn't actually do good world-building\r\n11:42 AM I agree with SharpEmbrace \r\n11:42 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:42 AM Calibri_Bold: Of course, because all writing does that. I agree with that. Don't you think that that same line of thinking applies to 3493, with it being inspired by the SCP format?\r\n11:42 AM red3: again, of course it was inspired by things\r\n11:42 AM <+cybersqyd> In some ways, I can kinda forgive it for that though cos like, it's the first and learning how to do this kinda thing well takes time and practice?\r\n11:43 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: Except it takes more from the SCP format than the SCP format takes from anything else.\r\n11:43 AM <+cybersqyd> But at the same time, just cos I can understand why it's imperfect doesn't mean it's not still y'know, flawed\r\n11:43 AM <@Gee0765> there's (imo) a considerable difference between \"inspired by things\" and \"created heavily based on specifically one thing\"\r\n11:43 AM <@Calibri_Bold> ^\r\n11:43 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: You're taking a lot of leaps in your argument, I think.\r\n11:44 AM Calibri_Bold: How do you know that? There have been monsters before. There have been statues that attack people if they don't look at them before. There have been stories where a large organization attempts to contain these monsters before.\r\n11:44 AM Guys, I don't think this discussion is going anywhere. Y'all can agree to disagree.\r\n11:44 AM <@Calibri_Bold> SharpEmbrace: I'm enjoying the discussion.\r\n11:44 AM ^\r\n11:44 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: None of those did what 173 did though.\r\n11:44 AM <+cybersqyd> How do y'all feel about the addition of the 'Creator Information' section?\r\n11:45 AM <~barredowl> cybersqyd: necessary.\r\n11:45 AM cybersqyd: a necessary evil\r\n11:45 AM <+cybersqyd> Like, obviously, it's not part of the SCP but it's also like. a prominent part of the page\r\n11:45 AM <~barredowl> it might be a little obtrusive but hey\r\n11:45 AM <~barredowl> licensing\r\n11:45 AM <@Calibri_Bold> 173 wasn't inspiring because it was a scary monster, or because it was about an organization containing those monsters.\r\n11:45 AM it breaks immersion in a way that would be harmful if i was immersed in the slightest\r\n11:45 AM <+cybersqyd> Oh yeah, I'm not saying it should be removed per se; I'm just wondering how you feel about it shaping your enjoyment of the article\r\n11:45 AM lol\r\n11:45 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:45 AM <@Gee0765> gtg eat dinner\r\n11:45 AM bye gee\r\n11:45 AM <+cybersqyd> have a good dinner\r\n11:46 AM <~barredowl> so, just a little question: how should we handle breaks when we have three skips to discuss? just as usual, where we take a break between skip readings?\r\n11:46 AM <~barredowl> or article readings to be more general\r\n11:46 AM <@Calibri_Bold> It was inspiring because it used an in-universe format as a means of world building, something that really hadn't been done before.\r\n11:46 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: ^\r\n11:46 AM Calibri_Bold: How do those not do what 173 did? 173 just presented those in a different format, the same way that 3493 did. If you're saying that 173 is somehow more original because it doesn't appear to be similar to its sources, then how do you quantify what makes anything original at all? At what line does 3493 become original from 173?\r\n11:46 AM Calibri_Bold: Again, there have been thousands of examples where that has been the case.\r\n11:47 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: Not like this.\r\n11:47 AM <+cybersqyd> barredowl, imo usual break\r\n11:47 AM <~barredowl> ah ok\r\n11:47 AM Calibri_Bold: What does that mean?\r\n11:47 AM <+cybersqyd> as in, couple of minutes between each skip\r\n11:47 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Essays, diaries, etc. are all used in real life to tell stories or make arguments.\r\n11:47 AM <+cybersqyd> maybe a shorter like, two minute one and a longer like, 6 minute one but *shrugs*\r\n11:48 AM Calibri_Bold: Yeah, and government documents are used to describe events, some of which have been directly described in history as paranormal. \r\n11:48 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: This is true.\r\n11:48 AM I have to go, sorry i couldn't be on longer\r\n11:48 AM <+cybersqyd> Diana: no worries :3\r\n11:48 AM <+cybersqyd> Have fun with whatever you gotta do!\r\n11:49 AM So what's the difference between diary entries being used to tell a fictional story and the SCP format being used to tell an original story?\r\n11:49 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: But even so, it's a far cry to say that 3493 is more original than 173.\r\n11:49 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: 3493 uses the exact same format that 173 does.\r\n11:49 AM That is just purely false.\r\n11:49 AM <~barredowl> hmm, do you think at any point we should just call this discussion up and give our final impressions of the work at hand? 🤷‍♀️\r\n11:49 AM <+cybersqyd> barredowl, yes\r\n11:49 AM barredowl: Never.\r\n11:50 AM We shall debate until the end of time.\r\n11:50 AM <~barredowl> :O\r\n11:50 AM <@Calibri_Bold> red3: I mean, it definitely twists it and whatnot.\r\n11:50 AM Calibri_Bold: So is the focus more on the perspective of an in-universe entity on in-universe events as a way of world-building than the value of the format inherently?\r\n11:50 AM <~barredowl> this is just nut hour\r\n11:50 AM <@Calibri_Bold> But the base format is still there.\r\n11:50 AM <+cybersqyd> Cal, Red: y'all are welcome to keep debating in PMs or w/e but we should probably move on at some point\r\n11:50 AM Yeah, we're kinda just flooding up the chat at this point.\r\n11:50 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Yeah, we should probably chill by now.\r\n11:50 AM <~barredowl> so, final impressions of 173?\r\n11:50 AM barredowl: only if the majority wish it\r\n11:50 AM <+cybersqyd> :3\r\n11:50 AM <~barredowl> i suppose\r\n11:51 AM <~barredowl> if y'all want that\r\n11:51 AM <+cybersqyd> I kinda like 173\r\n11:51 AM i would like to move on, for one\r\n11:51 AM <@Calibri_Bold> barredowl: I like it.\r\n11:51 AM <+cybersqyd> I don't think it's great but it has a charm to it\r\n11:51 AM <~barredowl> yeah i kinda like the tone of it, and i like what it sets up\r\n11:51 AM i think it's awfully written, but is important from a meta point of view\r\n11:51 AM <@Calibri_Bold> ^\r\n11:51 AM <~barredowl> SharpEmbrace: yeah, quite a bit\r\n11:51 AM On the 173 document itself, there are some very basic elements that are used to give an artificial sense of mystery. Things that are seen in articles today with +10 or +20 rating. Some good imagery with the blood and feces line, but it lacks a lot of the usual narrative hooks that would bring a person through an article like this.\r\n11:52 AM <+cybersqyd> tbf it's also real short\r\n11:52 AM <~barredowl> it's a short boi\r\n11:52 AM <+cybersqyd> you can get away with a lot if you don't use many words\r\n11:52 AM <+cybersqyd> as i learnt recently\r\n11:52 AM I would say that I like the ConProcs the most, since it's a good example of providing the most basic information possible and getting to the stuff that's unique to this article. There are a lot of SCPs that spend two or three paragraphs describing things that aren't necessary to the story and don't add anything to the world.\r\n11:52 AM <+cybersqyd> mmm yeah\r\n11:53 AM <+cybersqyd> it does ConProcs really nicely in that regard\r\n11:53 AM cybersqyd: true, but i don't think that making something short is an excuse for poor writing\r\n11:53 AM <+cybersqyd> oh sure, i'm just saying that narrative hooks aren't as important due to it's short length\r\n11:53 AM o yeah\r\n11:53 AM i agree with you on that\r\n11:54 AM While that is true, there has to be something to carry this. Monster manual entries like this usually carry themselves on the concept itself, like that centipede article that was featured a few days ago, but this doesn't have anything like that.\r\n11:54 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:54 AM <~barredowl> the shortest SCP actually has quite a lot of implied narrative\r\n11:54 AM <~barredowl> at least i think it's the shortest\r\n11:54 AM Even in the time that it was written, the anomaly's properties weren't that unique since they were just copy+pasted from the Weeping Angles.\r\n11:54 AM <+cybersqyd> there's just about enough elements to get you thinking but not quite to do it well\r\n11:54 AM *Angels\r\n11:54 AM <~barredowl> .s irredeemable\r\n11:54 AM <@Secretary_Helen> barredowl: SCP-2165: Irredeemable (Rating: +264. Written 4 years ago By: Dmatix) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-2165\r\n11:54 AM — DrMoned likes how this was meant to be a short section on 173\r\n11:55 AM <+cybersqyd> .s no man is an island\r\n11:55 AM <@Secretary_Helen> cybersqyd: SCP-4465: No Man is an Island (Rating: +270. Written 1 year ago By: DarkStuff) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-4465\r\n11:55 AM <+cybersqyd> that one's about 20 words shorter ;p\r\n11:55 AM <~barredowl> oh huh\r\n11:56 AM <~barredowl> you remember that one that darkstuff did about teeth or something?\r\n11:56 AM <~barredowl> i kinda want to see that again\r\n11:56 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:56 AM cybersqyd: I would agree that there are some elements that hook you in like the HMCL Director and the Class 4 hazardous objects containment procedures, but those are extremely blunt in their hooks. The only other things that act as hooks are the fact that this is the 173rd SCP and the fact that this is housed at the 19th Site.\r\n11:56 AM .s the grinner\r\n11:56 AM <@Secretary_Helen> red3: SCP-4910: \"The Grinner\" (Rating: +120. Written 1 year ago By: flumswack rewritten on: 2018-11-30 by shaggydredlocks) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-4910\r\n11:56 AM This one? ^\r\n11:56 AM <~barredowl> no\r\n11:56 AM <~barredowl> that's shaggy\r\n11:56 AM <~barredowl> the darkstuff article was very short\r\n11:56 AM <~barredowl> it got deleted\r\n11:56 AM <+cybersqyd> darkstuff did one about uh. humans growing an extra set of teeth iirc once they hit 250 years old\r\n11:57 AM <+cybersqyd> and it being found in archaeological records\r\n11:57 AM <~barredowl> but yeah i really like 4910\r\n11:57 AM <~barredowl> fun one\r\n11:58 AM <+cybersqyd> .s absolute tooth field\r\n11:58 AM Should we take a break now?\r\n11:58 AM <@Secretary_Helen> cybersqyd: SCP-5940: ABSOLUTE TOOTH FIELD (Rating: +132. Written 54 days ago By: A Random Day) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-5940\r\n11:58 AM i don't really like \"look at all my terminology bro\" as a world-building method\r\n11:58 AM <+cybersqyd> this is probably my favourite tooth one\r\n11:58 AM SharpEmbrace: Yes.\r\n11:58 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, we kinda are imo ;p\r\n11:58 AM <~barredowl> yeah, let's probably take a break?\r\n11:58 AM <~barredowl> or at least call on\r\n11:58 AM <~barredowl> *one\r\n11:58 AM <+cybersqyd> break sounds good :3\r\n","name":"SCP-173","extension":"txt","url":"https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xG9gU3Pl/SCP-173","modified":1590002443,"id":"xG9gU3Pl","size":29297,"lines":333,"own_paste":false,"theme":"","date":1590002443}