{"body":"11:13 AM <~barredowl> okay, then. since most everybody is done with the skip, shall we start with our first impressions?\r\n11:13 AM <+cybersqyd> this feels, very introductory\r\n11:13 AM I had to check again to make sure this wsn't part of the Verdent/Veldt stuff\r\n11:13 AM <~barredowl> yeah, it really does.\r\n11:13 AM <~barredowl> whether that's a bad thing, though, i guess i'll have to see.\r\n11:14 AM There's some great blending of traditional prose and clinical tone here, especially with the testing logs, the lines about this anomaly spreading through various GoIs, and the ending line about protecting humanity.\r\n11:14 AM It seems reminiscent of scp-1483 with the worldbuilding\r\n11:14 AM <+cybersqyd> it's weird cos while it's clearly introductory, it also doesn't really get me excited to read more?\r\n11:14 AM cybersqyd: I am with you on that\r\n11:14 AM <+cybersqyd> it feels too much like it's just using a lot of words to say 'oh btw superheroes exist now'\r\n11:14 AM Yeah. But it isn't even all that clear\r\n11:15 AM Magic tree, spoopy liquid, superheros seems to be the underlying story \r\n11:15 AM I enjoyed this one. Its a nice blend of the SCP format we are used to with what is essentally a Foundation ready to move to war if need be\r\n11:15 AM <~barredowl> yeah, i can sorta see that; there are some parts which get me interested, but in terms of getting me invested for later on, it's 50/50\r\n11:15 AM I am with BlueJones on I like the concept of actually getting onto a war footing\r\n11:15 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:15 AM <~barredowl> that's fun, yeah\r\n11:15 AM <+cybersqyd> I mean, I like that theoretically but I wish there'd been...more of it in here?\r\n11:15 AM ^\r\n11:16 AM We know that the Foundation has the resources to wage full-scale war, but most of the time it never really explores a full scale action\r\n11:16 AM <~barredowl> yeah; at the moment, it feels a tiny bit lackluster\r\n11:16 AM this is the setup for something i thimk i'll really enjoy, but the skip itself is rather boring\r\n11:16 AM I am unsure what would have been added without excess story bloat though\r\n11:16 AM <~barredowl> like there's something else which should draw us in at a later date\r\n11:16 AM It would need a bit of a rework to properly develop the story further from what I can tell\r\n11:17 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah probably\r\n11:17 AM There's a lot of very obvious questions which will most likely get answered later on (e.g. what is Document 3396-ALABASTER? What does \"THRIVE\" mean? What do the cryptic things the infected people say mean?). I would've liked a bit more worldbuilding to set up what kind of Foundation we're dealing with here, because it seems to be very bland from the little description that is given to it.\r\n11:18 AM i feel like the main issue is that the skip has very little going on for it beyond providing a base to build upon in the tales\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> so i love apotheosis as a canon/series\r\n11:18 AM And I also agree with Malyce that a lot of the things here aren't that clear.\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> but like\r\n11:18 AM <~barredowl> uh huh, yeah\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> this article isn't actually very good\r\n11:18 AM This seems very much against qntm's \"\"To be continued\" is your enemy. Write a complete story in one chapter.\"\r\n11:18 AM <@Gee0765> like, scp articles are meant to stand on their own\r\n11:18 AM <~barredowl> yeah; by itself, it's sorta poor as its own thing.\r\n11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> I always kinda have mixed feelings on qntms wisdom there tho\r\n11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> like, it's generally very good advice\r\n11:19 AM it explains the shift in the status quo, and creates a couple of characters, but these characters aren't really fleshed out in an interesting way so there's nothing for me to enjoy here\r\n11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> but i think sometimes it's fine to not\r\n11:19 AM okay so actually never mind it got rescheduled so im here\r\n11:19 AM Yeah, there needs to be a hook somewhere to get the reader to continue reading.\r\n11:19 AM I'll hop in for the next one\r\n11:19 AM Honestly though it does set up the canon rather nicely cause we know what the threat is and we know how bad it can get with the Foundation preparing to go to war, but as you all said there isn't much here beyond \"We will go to war if this gets completely out of hand\"\r\n11:19 AM cybersqyd I agree, but with a skip like this it seems relevant\r\n11:19 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:19 AM As the story cuts off abruptly\r\n11:20 AM (I am being extremely hypocritical here ik) :p\r\n11:21 AM SharpEmbrace: I agree with all of your points except the shift in the status quo. Yes, there are mentions of changes happening within various GoIs and society as a whole, but since there's nothing to base those GoIs off of in this canon yet, I can't really say that it's much of a shift at all. I do agree that there's only the real bare bones of a story here. It's mostly there just to serve as in-universe flavor.\r\n11:21 AM Also, the navigation thing at the bottom makes this very clear its part of something larger. This feels like a bit of a cop out, it's sort of saying \"look look, there is more\"\r\n11:21 AM <+cybersqyd> There's enough here that we know there's been a shift in the status quo and roughly what it looks like kinda; but not quite enough that we know what it actually looks like\r\n11:21 AM Well, that's less of a problem with the article itself and more of a problem with how the CSS looks.\r\n11:22 AM red3: presumably rogue superheroes was not the status quo prior to this?\r\n11:22 AM red3 I mean, they could have just not put it there :p\r\n11:22 AM <~barredowl> cybersqyd: that seems like the case for me, yeah. it's relatively broad, perhaps too broad, in what it's setting up.\r\n11:22 AM cybersqyd: yeah, it's not defined clearly enough for it to really get me excited about reading more\r\n11:22 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:22 AM And it was more of a comment on how the skip doesnt properly end, but then directs you to another article. It would be fine on a self contained story skip red3\r\n11:24 AM I am not sure there is much to say more on this skip without context\r\n11:24 AM <@Gee0765> i mean as far as im concerned context shouldn't matter for an scp article\r\n11:24 AM I agree Gee\r\n11:24 AM Merely saying, we havent really got enough to talk about here\r\n11:24 AM thoughts on all the jargon?\r\n11:24 AM <+cybersqyd> I'm reminded of SCP-4514 here; in that both set up a canon and like, are the start of a story\r\n11:24 AM It seems well written, but lacks a proper full story\r\n11:25 AM DrMoned: Yeah, but I don't think that this is meant to be a scip with a fully contained story necessarily. Again, its main purpose is to set up the world and provide a bit of reference for everything that happens. It's the entire exposition wrapped together in a neat little scip, so I don't think it's really fair to say that this should have a full and proper story.\r\n11:25 AM <+cybersqyd> But 4514 feels...interesting on it's own and just uses the canon as a framing device\r\n11:25 AM It's like criticizing a prologue for not being the entire novel. That's not the point of it.\r\n11:25 AM <@Gee0765> 4514 is pretty decent as a self-contained story though yeah\r\n11:25 AM <~barredowl> yeah, 4514 is like, good as a self-contained thing\r\n11:25 AM <@Gee0765> like you realise that the people listed in it are like, 150 years old\r\n11:25 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:26 AM red3: yeah but prologues are displayed alongside the rest of the book\r\n11:26 AM red3 True, but for me, the SCP should be good enough to stand alone as well\r\n11:26 AM And this isnt a prologue, its an SCP\r\n11:26 AM I might view a tale differently\r\n11:26 AM <+cybersqyd> SharpEmbrace, I don't like the jargon here tbh\r\n11:27 AM <@Gee0765> i mean my opinion on this is only how it is because I'm holding this scp to the purely arbitrary standard that scps should be self-contained stories\r\n11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> SharpEmbrace, it feels too much? Like it makes this feel super dense and less interesting; which doesn't help when it's already not hugely interesting as a whole\r\n11:27 AM DrMoned: Yes, it's an SCP, but it's also the prologue of the story. It's the one where most of the characters and the villain are introduced, where the threat is displayed, where the world is laid out to the reader. That same criticism would still apply if it was a tale describing some experiments and the anomaly itself.\r\n11:27 AM <@Gee0765> and if you don't hold them to that standard\r\n11:27 AM <@Gee0765> you could have a totally different opinion on this\r\n11:28 AM For a long time I was wondering why SCP articles have to stand on their own. I think that, for the most part, they should. but if they're clearly labeled as PART of a greater whole, i'm willing to give a bit more lenience on such things\r\n11:28 AM ^\r\n11:28 AM red3 True, but I wanted more of a story than this\r\n11:28 AM tbh i don't think the characters are introduced super well here\r\n11:28 AM Maybe it's because I wrote Legba's Stick to be part of something else and it doesn't really stand alone, but I am fine with some clearly labeled skips being part of a continuing/group narrative\r\n11:28 AM its like the first paragraph of a prologue, rather than an entire prologue\r\n11:28 AM or at least in any meaningful depth\r\n11:29 AM what do i actually know about the two characters other than what their superpowers are\r\n11:29 AM DrMoned: You're treating this like a collection of short stories, where each one is meant to be its own independent story which can be read in any order the reader wishes. It's not. It's more like a chapter of a novel, where each thing builds on the things that came before it. Again, it's like criticizing a prologue or the opening chapter of a book for not having a strict opening, middle, and conclusion. That's not the \r\n11:29 AM point.\r\n11:30 AM red3 I disagree, I think this could be part of a greater whole and still be satisfying. It just isnt \r\n11:30 AM it introduces a few things, but not enough for me to really understand or get invested into any of them, before moving on\r\n11:31 AM if this is a prologue i think it's a shitty prologue\r\n11:31 AM it doesn't really want me to read more \r\n11:31 AM <~barredowl> see, even as a prologue i don't know if this is particularly the best- yeah\r\n11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> Does anyone have more to add or should we move on maybe?\r\n11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> It feels, perhaps like we're circling a little\r\n11:31 AM DrMoned: Again, you're treating it like a bunch of short stories. You can't invest a reader in a character in 500 words, it's just not possible.\r\n11:31 AM cybersqyd: I wanted to touch on Sharp's points a bit, but we can move on if you'd like.\r\n11:32 AM — +cybersqyd shrugs\r\n11:32 AM red3 no, you cant. But you can not introduce a ton of tangents and not fully explore any of them at all\r\n11:32 AM <+cybersqyd> I'm up for continuing, it just feels like we're getting repetitive\r\n11:32 AM I mean, if this makes you want to read more that's valid, but I personally am not seeing that.\r\n11:32 AM it feels like shotgunning parts of something greater\r\n11:32 AM <~barredowl> i think this could like, continue for a bit longer, but i'll see if it just feels like we're going in circles\r\n11:33 AM red3: what did you have to say about my points\r\n11:33 AM red3 I like quite a few SCPs that are part of something greater, and lead on to other narratives. But this feels like it leans on the canon too much\r\n11:34 AM without giving me the reason to read on that much\r\n11:35 AM DrMoned: I guess I see that. I would've liked to see more world-building, but I think that this was meant to just give the reader a taste of the world before diving into one of the main points. Something as big as a world-ending anomaly needs to address a lot of points right off the bat so that the reader gets a taste of what the world and the story are going to be like. It takes a more broad look than something like \r\n11:35 AM EoD, which focuses on a few characters' responses to the apocalypse.\r\n11:35 AM <~barredowl> yeah; i guess in that regard it setting up a lot of things makes sense\r\n11:35 AM red3 Yeah, I understand what it was trying to do, and liked most of it. I just think it ends a bit too soon with lots of loose ends\r\n11:36 AM <@Gee0765> ok im gonna go eat now, i should be back soonish though\r\n11:36 AM again, i don't think this is a powerful taste. like, i'm not really getting a strong sense of themes, characters, all that good stuff\r\n11:36 AM It makes me ask questions, and want to read on which is good, but it does this a bit too much\r\n11:36 AM <~barredowl> have fun and consume gee\r\n11:36 AM Enjoy your food Gee\r\n11:36 AM — SharpEmbrace eats gee\r\n11:36 AM barredowl: done\r\n11:36 AM <~barredowl> noooo\r\n11:37 AM <~barredowl> alright, so do you think we should wrap up? any concluding thoughts?\r\n11:37 AM Despite the flawas that all of you recognised in this, I do like this and therefore give it a medium to heavy +1\r\n11:38 AM I like quite a lot of what it does, the jargon was fine imo. But it kinda petered out too soon\r\n11:38 AM SharpEmbrace: I agree with you that the characters feel a bit underdeveloped, but I disagree on your thoughts on the ending and the jargon. Focusing on the latter point first, this has a lot more refreshing jargon than a lot of other articles because it uses more than just the 200 scientific-y words that most articles use to try and fit clinical tone. Therefore, it felt a lot better to read because it actually felt like \r\n11:38 AM I was reading something new rather than just the same bundle of words being reused over and over again. On the former point, the ending that this uses -- setting up that the Foundation has to save whatever's left of humanity -- sets this up as a story which has a very large narrative that'll span the entire world. It's a matter of personal taste, but that hook worked really well on me.\r\n11:38 AM <~barredowl> i think i might give this either a light upvote or a light downvote\r\n11:38 AM <~barredowl> i'm uncertain\r\n11:38 AM light downvote for me, but it might be just because I had a higher expectation of Cadaver from the rest of the stuff I have read of his\r\n11:39 AM I don't find a statement of the story's massive scale to be a strong hook on its own.\r\n11:39 AM <~barredowl> i quite enjoyed a lot of parts in this, and think it mostly neatly sets up things for the next chapter.\r\n11:39 AM <~barredowl> but for above mentioned reasons, i'm tentative.\r\n11:39 AM <~barredowl> huh, yeah\r\n11:39 AM when did we start doing the \"light downvote\" thing? did i just miss when that happened\r\n11:39 AM I guess its a measure of how much you dislike or like it :P\r\n11:39 AM This is an upvote from me. The writing is good and it works very well for what it's trying to accomplish. I personally didn't like it as a standalone piece, but that's mainly just a problem with how it's displayed to the reader.\r\n11:39 AM <+cybersqyd> owl has done it since the start, iirc\r\n11:40 AM <~barredowl> yeah\r\n11:40 AM <~barredowl> i'm a pioneer :3\r\n11:40 AM Trend-setter.\r\n11:40 AM didn't we like have a thing where we wouldn't say what our votes where at the beginning\r\n11:40 AM Yo, am back.\r\n11:41 AM SCP-3885 from cadaver did a much better job at setting up a narrative. So I based a lot of my views off how they did that red\r\n11:41 AM <@Secretary_Helen> DrMoned: SCP-3885: The High-Octane Full-Throttle Adventures of the Exploding Zombie Gearheads (Rating: +254. Written 2 years ago By: CadaverCommander) - http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-3885\r\n11:41 AM or did we scrap that immediately\r\n11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> I don't think we did?\r\n11:41 AM — DrMoned shrugs\r\n11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> we talked about doing it but I think decided not to\r\n11:41 AM <~barredowl> hmm\r\n11:41 AM <~barredowl> i'm not entirely sure\r\n11:41 AM <+cybersqyd> uh anyway, I downvoted this for being a boring slog that I personally didn't enjoy really any aspect of\r\n11:42 AM <~barredowl> we do have logs, so you can check those\r\n11:42 AM pretty much same as cyber\r\n11:42 AM <~barredowl> understandable\r\n11:42 AM I'm gonna take my break early cause I need to get dinner and do some private business. Will be back in time for \"The Shape of a Gun\" :P\r\n11:42 AM DrMoned: Yes, but the Joey Fucknuts series focused on one character, not an entire world. It's a hell of a lot easier to establish one town and a small caste of characters than it is to set up a world where humanity is being threatened by an anomaly which grants people magical powers. It's trying to set up two different narratives, so it uses two different styles.\r\n11:42 AM I enjoyed parts, but didnt with others\r\n11:43 AM I have to take an online class in twenty minutes, so I won't be able to read the next tale.\r\n11:43 AM red3 indeed, but imo the character was setup in tales there. He didnt try to do character creation within the article there\r\n11:43 AM <~barredowl> alright then. so shall we call a short break? get some snacks? sit back, relax?\r\n11:43 AM He broke it into a more manageable chunk\r\n11:43 AM I novoted because I like elements of it but I wasn't that big of a fan of this execution. I'm willing to suspend some stuff because it's the intro to a larger narrative, but this one just simply exists. It is a meh? ramp\r\n11:44 AM So logically, with a bigger project, you should be even more careful with how you set it up\r\n11:44 AM Malyce I am largely of the same opinion, although I dont novote much anymore :p\r\n11:44 AM DrMoned: I don't see how that criticism applies here. This isn't the entire arc of the characters; they're just being introduced.\r\n11:45 AM red3 but its another tangent tacked on imo\r\n11:45 AM I'm only novoting because I agree that the overall canon is pretty damn good\r\n11:45 AM Oh wait, my class starts an hour from now. Okay, I'll be able to stick around.\r\n11:45 AM <~barredowl> okay, apologies; didn't realize we were sorta still discussing\r\n11:46 AM We can move on if you need barred?\r\n11:46 AM <~barredowl> nah, just want to make sure everyone's done before we call a five or so minute break\r\n11:46 AM i have nothing to say i haven't already said\r\n11:46 AM <~barredowl> yeah, me neither\r\n","name":"SCP-3396","extension":"txt","url":"https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/sjrad4Sg/SCP-3396","modified":1592851995,"id":"sjrad4Sg","size":19194,"lines":174,"own_paste":false,"theme":"","date":1592851995}