{"body":"\n[2018-07-26 23:48:31] 'Bow, can I ask you some questions about City Mages?\n[2018-07-26 23:54:59] Sure\n[2018-07-26 23:57:07] Would you rather a flurry of dumb questions now, or a slightly less dumb post on reddit?\n[2018-07-26 23:57:20] I can do either. \n[2018-07-27 00:01:13] Do they have to be dumb?\n[2018-07-27 00:05:00] Hopefully not.\n[2018-07-27 00:05:11] Okay, right.\n[2018-07-27 00:05:50] Are Abstractions that are invoked or created the same things as loci?\n[2018-07-27 00:06:42] Loci?\n[2018-07-27 00:07:17] It was the terminology used in the spells doc for the spirit of an area\n[2018-07-27 00:08:12] The kind that city/nomad mages commune and deal with\n[2018-07-27 00:08:49] That may have been a concept created by another GM. I know Val used them in Shinjuku for Nick, at least, but I don’t know where he got the idea from\n[2018-07-27 00:08:49] I know - just trying to parse what Ollie is asking\n[2018-07-27 00:09:35] Genius loci, the spirit of the area.\n[2018-07-27 00:10:02] The way I understand it, abstractions created are basically representations of the loci\n[2018-07-27 00:11:38] Formed so that a practitioner can bargain with them and isn't just talking to thin air\n[2018-07-27 00:13:23] Yeah. Just seems weird to ask \"Are these spiritual abstractions of an area the same thing as spirits of an area?\"\n[2018-07-27 00:14:16] Because the spirit of an area could be the conglomeration of animals/rocks/greenery/temperature/history/physical area/population, or it could just be the spatial coordinates. Does a City Mage affect only the physical aspect of the city, or does it affect the mood/other things in it.\n[2018-07-27 00:14:50] It's possible to understand that an Abstraction is the physical area, where a loci is everything in the area.\n[2018-07-27 00:16:20] — Wildbow squints\n[2018-07-27 00:16:25] How much a loci can control is another subject for debate\n[2018-07-27 00:16:33] No. Same thing.\n[2018-07-27 00:17:08] okay\n[2018-07-27 00:17:48] Does an area spirit affect everything in the area or just the area?\n[2018-07-27 00:17:55] ^\n[2018-07-27 00:18:51] I don't understand your phrasing/distinction\n[2018-07-27 00:19:12] Spirits are everything under their umbrella.\n[2018-07-27 00:19:55] So, the spirit of a location would also have access to everything living there like rats?\n[2018-07-27 00:20:14] For example, if you pissed off a loci, could you then be chased by angry bunnies? If it's only the physical area, then the loci would have to bargain with the bunnies-in-the-area spirit to have them chase you. \n[2018-07-27 00:20:33] I assumed they could only access the space of an area\n[2018-07-27 00:21:10] Like, the length of corridors and which door connects to what\n[2018-07-27 00:22:48] It really depends on the area - if the area is defined by its rat population, the spirit will have more effect on those rats\n[2018-07-27 00:24:46] So the spirit of a bar would likely be able to affect sex/drunkeness/anger, but not likely to be able to affect vermin/growth/temperature?\n[2018-07-27 00:25:27] If that's a very sexy, drunken, angry bar, yeah.\n[2018-07-27 00:28:42] So if I created an abstraction for my kitchen, it likely wouldn't be able to do much in particular. Food in it would not be slightly better, would not have fewer spills?\n[2018-07-27 00:28:44] ...I don’t see why all of the above couldn’t factor in\n[2018-07-27 00:29:06] Ack, sorry, message got delayed\n[2018-07-27 00:30:49] Ignore that post, please\n[2018-07-27 00:33:43] In general, a kitchen spirit isn't going to do much unless you find an avenue of gathering power and pump power into it\n[2018-07-27 00:35:03] How editable are abstractions? Could I change the personality of my kitchen, would other abstractions get mad? Is editing only possible when making one from scratch?\n[2018-07-27 00:35:12] You can use cantrips and the right words/background to pull power out of a kitchen to do something that you could do in an evening, for example. Doing it faster/better would require a better relationship - and the effect would depend on the quality of that particular kitchen spirit - how cared for it was\n[2018-07-27 00:35:44] What could I do with the power of a kitchen?\n[2018-07-27 00:36:21] I think the standard stuff is movement and environmental manipulation\n[2018-07-27 00:37:40] Prepare food? Generate some emotions?\n[2018-07-27 00:38:37] Got it.\n[2018-07-27 00:38:52] you probably get a more juice out of the spirit of the kitchen in a super famous restaurant than the spirit of your personal kitchen\n[2018-07-27 00:39:53] Generally speaking you don't edit areas unless you own them. You give them faces or forms and make deals - take quests, give tokens of favor, all depending on the personality of the area. You generally deal big - a small location isn't going to give a whole lot of oomph.\n[2018-07-27 00:40:10] So, what would be the average things for the spirit of a town? The things mentioned in the practice list?\n[2018-07-27 00:40:48] As you build cachet, complete those quests, do those favors, then areas will be more inclined to help out of hope for future favors or goodwill.\n[2018-07-27 00:41:15] Okay, say I do own it. I can make my kitchen's personality more homey and bubbly, and then the real world will change to reflect that?\n[2018-07-27 00:41:39] Toss in a big chunk of power, and then someone will come to install a swimming pool?\n[2018-07-27 00:42:30] Beyond that, you'd maintain a set of tricks and long-standing city-mage stuff, pulling on the cachet that city mages as a whole maintain, possibly using marks akin to hobo scrawlings, for either direct effect or to feel the city's pulse and know where you want to go.\n[2018-07-27 00:43:22] Scrawl a certain symbol on the wall, 'a way in' and it skitters off, and if you can keep up with it, it'll lead you to an open window.\n[2018-07-27 00:43:47] Huh\n[2018-07-27 00:44:11] Scrawl it within a circle, put a bit of power into it, and you can force a way in.\n[2018-07-27 00:45:50] You'd need a ~big~ chunk of power for someone to install a $20,000 fixture by accident and then not fight you over it.\n[2018-07-27 00:46:01] :D\n[2018-07-27 00:46:46] Olive, I may have overestimated how strong city mages can be when I gave you the doorway spell\n[2018-07-27 00:47:19] (The doorway spell is a teleportation from one alley to another alley.)\n[2018-07-27 00:47:50] (That's fine, I'll live. Do what you must :P )\n[2018-07-27 00:47:59] Do you have a lot of puissance or a good family?\n[2018-07-27 00:48:12] Moderate puissance and least family\n[2018-07-27 00:48:32] His only trustworthy ally is a very angry pigeon\n[2018-07-27 00:48:47] Do Nomads and City Mages go through the spirit world to shorten trips?\n[2018-07-27 00:51:21] A rough on-the-spot idea to replace it could be that he can mark two places and open up a path between the two that only he can use, but it still takes time to traverse\n[2018-07-27 00:51:51] Or would that also be too strong?\n[2018-07-27 00:52:02] → TheWhiteDuke joined (uid277976@highgate.irccloud.com)\n[2018-07-27 00:52:23] It might be a good idea to move this to #Spellbook\n[2018-07-27 01:02:23] What if you're on bad terms with a place, or wanted to break into a house. Could you call up their abstractions and beat them up? \n[2018-07-27 01:03:23] Mug them for their power?\n[2018-07-27 01:10:08] I think you ~could~ have a hostile city mage, but I think you'd lose a lot of cachet with city spirits in general if you did that.\n[2018-07-27 01:10:15] Or place spirits, anyway\n[2018-07-27 01:12:43] Do City/Nomad Mages travel often thought the spirit world in order to get from place to place?\n[2018-07-27 01:12:55] *through\n[2018-07-27 01:16:25] (You could threaten the spirits to not tell anyone that you mugged them or you'd be back. :D )\n[2018-07-27 01:18:10] I think it'd probably be a lot smarter for a city mage to bribe the spirit of a place if he want to break in\n[2018-07-27 01:19:16] I imagine you might travel through the spirit world 'underbelly' of the city at times. That'd be a thing though, probably done with a reason\n[2018-07-27 01:19:32] Pfff, you're supposed to beat up the biggest building on the block.\n[2018-07-27 01:20:45] Fun! The dark, grimy, forgotten and hidden part of the city, where the shame and crime spirits go. \n[2018-07-27 01:20:52] I also have questions about the nature of harbingers so I can get them right in Windsor, but those should probably wait for a day when Bow hasn't been questioned for an hour beforehand\n[2018-07-27 01:21:14] Half a step from the Abyss, littered with goblins.\n[2018-07-27 01:23:13] Could a haunted house form when a ghost takes over or infects an area spirit? \n[2018-07-27 01:23:52] I mean, a Haunted House usually just forms when a ghost hangs around in a house\n[2018-07-27 01:26:26] I don't remember any Haunted Houses, but it makes sense for it to infect the area spirit, because otherwise it wouldn't be strong enough to move things around, slam doors\n[2018-07-27 01:26:34] ...or something\n[2018-07-27 01:32:12] That is the traditional meaning of a Haunted House though - a House, that is Haunted, meaning a ghost is active there. I suspect to do the poltergeist-y thing would require a particular kind of ghost - maybe one who got killed by an angry partner/ex, throwing things around before going for the kill? Or just as a manifestation of the emotional state - anger, panic, chaos\n[2018-07-27 01:32:41] While a sad, trapped ghost might do cold spots, locked doors, shifting walls\n[2018-07-27 01:33:49] And then you start layering them, as more ghosts end up in the one Haunted Mansion, by design of a Practitioner, or because they were killed by circumstances pertaining to other ghosts...\n[2018-07-27 01:34:46] Got it, that makes sense. I was thinking of a specific type of haunted house. Blood flowing from faucets, doors slam closed, chains clank and grab you... Basically the Milkmaid's house without all the effort.\n[2018-07-27 01:51:36] If that was true, then I could sacrifice a child to get a magical Alexa.\n[2018-07-27 01:52:03] No olive\n[2018-07-27 01:52:29] :D\n[2018-07-27 01:52:31] Yeah... I don't think that ghost would be happy taking orders from you :P\n[2018-07-27 01:52:41] Maybe if I gave it candy?\n[2018-07-27 01:53:03] It's gonna take a whole lot of candy to forget that you just sacrificed it, especially because the trauma from the sacrifice is literally all it is now\n[2018-07-27 01:53:04] NO\n[2018-07-27 01:53:10] xD\n[2018-07-27 01:53:33] If you want a magical Alexa, claim a demesne\n[2018-07-27 01:54:09] Yeah, but that's not as fun.\n[2018-07-27 01:54:51] Or just strike a deal\n[2018-07-27 01:54:56] Murder isn’t always required.\n[2018-07-27 01:55:00] Okay, okay, no baby sacrifice, jeez. \n[2018-07-27 01:55:29] It's just like, one baby. \n[2018-07-27 01:55:38] One baby would probably be enough.\n[2018-07-27 01:56:02] I think I'm running out of City Mage questions.\n[2018-07-27 01:56:05] This is so sad Baby play despacito\n[2018-07-27 01:56:11] lol\n[2018-07-27 02:00:41] Are there any benefits to being a Nomad Mage over a City Mage other than not being tied down to one place?\n[2018-07-27 02:01:20] Able to deal with more spirits instead of just one\n[2018-07-27 02:01:31] You'd probably get more access to elementals, but place mages don't really deal with elementals\n[2018-07-27 02:02:16] you can deal with more than one spirit as a City Mage. You can talk to the bar, your apartment, the fire department, the local park, the french restaurant, Second Street...\n[2018-07-27 02:02:32] True, but it's all in one city\n[2018-07-27 02:02:44] Nomads can deal with a lot more\n[2018-07-27 02:02:57] I think it'd be the question of breadth vs. depth\n[2018-07-27 02:03:37] Nomads could plop down anywhere and have a decent number of options, but a city mage would be able to do a lot more in their chosen area.\n[2018-07-27 02:04:29] Like what?\n[2018-07-27 02:05:04] Actually, yeah, they probably just gain a lot of trust in their chosen city\n[2018-07-27 02:05:19] nomads have to build that up each time\n[2018-07-27 02:07:27] It's kind of like having a decent reputation with a large number of cliques vs. being one of the head people in a group. More people to fall back on in the former, more things you can ask for in the latter.\n[2018-07-27 02:07:27] I'm wrong, though. If a place has a lot of water, its main attribute will be water. That means that its likely to have most control over water, that means elementals. \n[2018-07-27 02:07:53] So a city mage that deals with a place with mostly water will be a elementalist\n[2018-07-27 02:08:29] I think it'd be closer to dipping into elementalism rather than calling themselves an elementalist.\n[2018-07-27 02:08:45] But the line would get blurry\n[2018-07-27 02:21:32] There was a spell I thought of, where a Nomad ritualistically binds an animal's tracks to the area spirit, thus giving the spirit the power of the sacrifice if it helps the person track down and kill the animal.\n[2018-07-27 02:23:23] → Ereus joined (uid242598@stonehaven.irccloud.com)\n[2018-07-27 02:23:38] That's a pretty cool idea. It would work pretty well with practitioners that have patrons too.\n[2018-07-27 02:26:22] hello all\n[2018-07-27 02:26:24] what we talking bout\n[2018-07-27 02:28:31] Nomad/City mage stuff\n[2018-07-27 02:30:29] ah\n[2018-07-27 02:34:27] The show of the ritual works better with places, since you can actually sew the tracks to the ground.\n[2018-07-27 02:34:41] Or nail them.\n[2018-07-27 02:38:19] True. I was thinking more like sacrificing an animal important to a god in exchange for its assistance.\n[2018-07-27 02:38:33] → Ender joined (genji102@net-rloql9.ma.comcast.net)\n[2018-07-27 02:38:58] Sure. Sacrificing animals to gods is a very old practice.\n[2018-07-27 02:39:34] (Incidentally, there are sacrifices that you partially burn and partially eat yourself. Yum, barbecue.)\n[2018-07-27 02:40:30] Yeah, thinking about it a bit more it might be closer to killing a strong animal-Other of a rival god in the name of your own.\n[2018-07-27 02:41:04] Depends on the god. \n[2018-07-27 02:43:07] Old Testament god was willing to accept grain, meal, wine. Small birds. Simple stuff, as long as it's yours.\n[2018-07-27 02:43:48] Like, it's your willingness to sacrifice that mattered.\n[2018-07-27 02:44:58] But yeah, other gods might prefer if you show your might, or show their superiority over the other one, or give them big impressive gifts\n[2018-07-27 02:45:11] Of course. I'd imagine killing wouldn't go over so well with a god of peace and life.\n[2018-07-27 02:45:45] ....'It's a DIY gift.'","name":"","extension":"txt","url":"https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/jtb5iNmR","modified":1540644458,"id":"jtb5iNmR","size":16211,"lines":144,"own_paste":false,"theme":"","date":1540644458}