{"body":"6:18 PM <•Mood4food77> Also everyone flips a poo when something negative is said\n6:19 PM <•Mood4food77> Its unpopular yea but jeez, you'd think it be the 2nd coming of satan sometimes \n6:19 PM <•Cynt|Wk> ^ that's me and items circa 2008\n6:21 PM <•Mood4food77> I still want to know what they can add besides jank\n6:22 PM <•Cynt|Wk> 'cause I haven't said that a thousand times before?\n6:22 PM <•Cynt|Wk> Should I just write this down in notepad and save it somewhere so I can copy/paste?\n6:22 PM <•Mood4food77> Maybe\n6:23 PM <•Mood4food77> Still not going to make sense\n6:24 PM <•Gespenst> Mood\n6:25 PM <•Gespenst> You're arguing with a guy that thinks an environment in which a basic attack at any time blowing up in your face is a good thing.\n6:25 PM <•Mood4food77> I know\n6:25 PM <•Mood4food77> It happened against manie\n6:25 PM <•Mood4food77> He whiffed a smash move\n6:25 PM <•Mood4food77> I went to punish \n6:25 PM <•Mood4food77> Something went boom\n6:25 PM <•Mood4food77> We both died \n6:26 PM ⇐ •Chunnydoof quit (~Chundalfr@PSI-60DED1F5.cpe.cableone.net) Quit: Bye\n6:26 PM <•Cynt|Wk> here we go loop-de-loop\n6:26 PM → •Chunnydoof (voiced) joined  \n6:26 PM <•Mood4food77> Because whatever argument you bring up for that scenario\n6:26 PM <•Mood4food77> Is assinine\n6:27 PM <•Mood4food77> And does nothing to help the case for items\n6:27 PM <•Cynt|Wk> like po said, I'm gonna need charts and graphs to point this shit out\n6:27 PM <•Gespenst> Cynt's understanding of appropriate risk-reward is \"a risk exists, and a reward exists.\"\n6:27 PM <•Mood4food77> No chart will helo you there\n6:27 PM <•Mood4food77> Help*\n6:27 PM <•Gespenst> The concept of the risk matching the reward is completely lost on him.\n6:27 PM <•Mood4food77> Should i have not gone for the punish?\n6:27 PM <•Mood4food77> There was nothing there when i started attacking\n6:27 PM <•Cynt|Wk> what I'm saying is not that you should not have gone for it\n6:27 PM <•Mood4food77> It appeared inbetween hits\n6:28 PM <•Mood4food77> He was at 120\n6:28 PM <•Mood4food77> Im cloud\n6:28 PM <•Cynt|Wk> just evaluating the clock when you were deciding to go for it and weighing the risk\n6:28 PM <•Mood4food77> So dont go for it\n6:28 PM <•Gespenst> See, right on cue.\n6:28 PM <•Mood4food77> Fucking fantastic \n6:28 PM <•Gespenst> What did I tell you, Mood?\n6:28 PM <•Mood4food77> Items are balanced\n6:28 PM <•Mood4food77> \\o/\n6:29 PM <•Mood4food77> He was at 120\n6:29 PM <•Mood4food77> I wasnt letting him live after his mistake\n6:29 PM <•Cynt|Wk> look, you already have the answers in your head before you ask the question, so what's the point in me arguing?\n6:29 PM <•Cynt|Wk> you won't see it any other way\n6:29 PM <•Mood4food77> Because i want a legitimate argument that actually can defend items\n6:29 PM <•Gespenst> Pot calling the kettle black, there.\n6:29 PM <•Mood4food77> And that\n6:29 PM <•Mood4food77> ThAT\n6:29 PM <•Mood4food77> Doesnt work\n6:29 PM <•Cynt|Wk> you don't like the argument\n6:29 PM <•Cynt|Wk> that's all\n6:30 PM <•Cynt|Wk> tough shit\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> Because its bad\n6:30 PM <•Gespenst> Because it's flawed from the core.\n6:30 PM <•Cynt|Wk> no, because you can't wrap your head around it\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> Look at the scenario\n6:30 PM <•Gespenst> Lol\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> He's at 120%\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> Im at about 100\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> I have rage\n6:30 PM <•Cynt|Wk> you're looking at the scenario from a point of view that has no items\n6:30 PM <•Gespenst> The \"you're just not as enlightened\" defense.\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> He whiffed an fsmash\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> What are my options to punish him\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> And make the punish worth it\n6:30 PM <•Mood4food77> He was bayo btw\n6:31 PM <•Mood4food77> Items or no items\n6:31 PM <•Cynt|Wk> you're self fulfilling here\n6:31 PM <•Mood4food77> What is my option\n6:31 PM <•Mood4food77> Stop avoiding kt\n6:31 PM <•Mood4food77> Just answer the question\n6:31 PM <•Gespenst> Classic Cynt intellectual dishonesty.\n6:31 PM <•Mood4food77> What option should i have done\n6:31 PM <•Cynt|Wk> avoiding what exactly? Giving you options you don't like?\n6:31 PM <•david> An item won't blow up if you don't hit it\n6:31 PM <•david> Just bait\n6:31 PM <•david> Like witch time\n6:31 PM <•Cynt|Wk> you force yourself into these situations\n6:32 PM <•Mood4food77> I already baited him\n6:32 PM <•Cynt|Wk> and then go \"why?!?\"\n6:32 PM <•Mood4food77> I made him whiff the fsmash\n6:32 PM <•Mood4food77> Why shoudl i bait back\n6:32 PM <•Gespenst> \"You force yourself into these situations?\"\n6:32 PM <•Mood4food77> I did\n6:32 PM <•Gespenst> Is this guy fucking serious?\n6:32 PM <•Mood4food77> I put him in the scenario so that he thought he got me and i made him miss a very laggy move\n6:32 PM <•david> For it to blow up would require action\n6:32 PM <•david> Like witch time\n6:32 PM <•Cynt|Wk> and you picked a bad time to do it if you don't like the outcome\n6:32 PM <•david> See balanced\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> A bad time\n6:33 PM <•Cynt|Wk> clock\n6:33 PM <•Cynt|Wk> watch it\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> Yes\n6:33 PM <•Cynt|Wk> for fuck's sake watch it\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> I used wario\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> I did\n6:33 PM <•Gespenst> And there's the flaw in the whole thing.\n6:33 PM <•david> Ges stop with the ad hominems please\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> Watch the clock\n6:33 PM <•Cynt|Wk> people can do it watching for Luma's return\n6:33 PM <•Cynt|Wk> you can do it with items\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> Its different\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> Waft and luma are constant\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> When the time is up\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> You know what you get\n6:33 PM <•Cynt|Wk> why, 'cause there's only a 4 second variation instead of absolute?\n6:33 PM <•Mood4food77> With an item\n6:34 PM <•Cynt|Wk> that's what we call \"risk\"\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> When the time is up, whats it going to be\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> Why add this risk to something so trivial\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> I went for the kill\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> Which is what i shouldve done\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> Ask anyone\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> Even scrubs\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> They all would say go for the kill\n6:34 PM <•Cynt|Wk> and you took that risk knowing (or at least you SAY you were knowing) that the possibility could occur\n6:34 PM <•Mood4food77> The 2% chance of it happening\n6:35 PM <•Mood4food77> Or whatever percent are items\n6:35 PM <•Mood4food77> I dont even knkw what explosed\n6:35 PM <•Mood4food77> Exploded since it appeared inbetween hits\n6:35 PM <•Cynt|Wk> your opponent took that chance attacking and leaving themselves open if they whiffed\n6:35 PM <•Mood4food77> What the fuck kind of logic is that\n6:35 PM <•Cynt|Wk> ...why am I dragged into this loop of retardation again?\n6:35 PM <•Mood4food77> Because its stupid reasoning\n6:35 PM <•Mood4food77> Like\n6:36 PM <•Mood4food77> Im trying to understand what reasoning he wiuld have to whiff a laggy move\n6:36 PM <•Mood4food77> Outside of thinking, im going to hit this\n6:36 PM <•Mood4food77> And i punished accordingly only to have it literally blow up ib my face\n6:36 PM <•Mood4food77> I lost the scenario he lost because of rng\n6:37 PM <•Cynt|Wk> there's no point in this. As I said this morning, this obviously cannot be discussed properly with words alone.\n6:37 PM <•Mood4food77> Like i said before\n6:37 PM <•Mood4food77> Any argument you pull up with items\n6:37 PM <•Mood4food77> Will not do anything to make them look good in a case similar to the one i described\n6:37 PM <•Mood4food77> Unless you bam those kind of items\n6:37 PM <•Mood4food77> Which makes the entire point moot\n6:38 PM <•Mood4food77> Its a fighting game\n6:38 PM <•Mood4food77> We dont want rng\n6:38 PM <•Cynt|Wk> and what I'm saying is you're approaching the scenario completely backwards\n6:38 PM <•Mood4food77> Items are rng no matter how you put it\n6:38 PM <•Mood4food77> How is it completely backwards\n6:38 PM <•Cynt|Wk> see, that's opinion there\n6:38 PM <•Mood4food77> In what fucking world is it backwards\n6:38 PM <•Cynt|Wk> YOU don't like rng, therefore it shouldn't be\n6:38 PM <•Gespenst> More strawmen.\n6:38 PM <•Mood4food77> Its a fighting game\n6:39 PM <•Cynt|Wk> ...your point?\n6:39 PM <•Gespenst> It's this particular implementation of RNG that's bad, not RNG itself.\n6:39 PM <•Mood4food77> Why should there be a random element that i can die at random\n6:39 PM <•Mood4food77> You should die for 2 reasons alone\n6:39 PM <•Mood4food77> You fucked up\n6:39 PM <•Mood4food77> Or i got the kill\n6:39 PM <•Mood4food77> Thats it\n6:39 PM <•Cynt|Wk> because that's manipulabl--- no, I'm done. This is going around and around again and I'm gonna start pukin' coathangers again.\n6:40 PM <•Mood4food77> Not some random bomb dropping in place because i went for the hardest punish possible\n6:40 PM <•Mood4food77> Because your argument sucks\n6:40 PM <•Mood4food77> They have specific and timed spawn points\n6:40 PM <•Mood4food77> I get that\n6:41 PM <•Mood4food77> But what items spawns is entirely random and where it spawns is entirely random\n6:41 PM <•Cynt|Wk> if you get that, then your only remaining argument is \"I don't like that\"\n6:41 PM <•Cynt|Wk> which is fine\n6:41 PM <•Cynt|Wk> but \"I don't like that\" <> \"they have no place\"\n6:41 PM <•Mood4food77> I dont like randomly exploding for making the right read\n6:41 PM <•Mood4food77> G&ws hammer and peachs turnip are rng\n6:42 PM <•Mood4food77> Bit they only occur when they perform the move\n6:42 PM <•Mood4food77> This is controllable rng\n6:42 PM <•Mood4food77> Which is fine\n6:42 PM <•Mood4food77> Its not ideal, but its fine since the player had to do something to cause it\n6:42 PM <•Cynt|Wk> and I'm telling you that there is much more control than you conceive of item rng\n6:42 PM <•Cynt|Wk> but you can't see that\n6:42 PM <•Mood4food77> A bomb dropping inbetween my fsmash on a punish\n6:42 PM <•Cynt|Wk> all you see is the worst case scenario and don't know how to plan around it\n6:43 PM <•Gespenst> You can't control anything with items, only optimize your reactions to it.\n6:43 PM <•Mood4food77> What control do i have over item rng\n6:43 PM <•Gespenst> There's a key difference.\n6:43 PM <•Mood4food77> Please \n6:43 PM <•Mood4food77> Enlighten me\n6:43 PM — •Cynt|Wk facepalms\n6:43 PM <•Mood4food77> What action can i make to make a fire flower appear\n6:43 PM <•Cynt|Wk> nope, done, this is getting nowhere\n6:43 PM <•Mood4food77> Right next to me\n6:43 PM <•Mood4food77> Then its not controllable rng\n6:44 PM <•Mood4food77> I can play around it sure\n6:44 PM <•Mood4food77> But that adds another element i have to fight\n6:44 PM <•Mood4food77> Its getting somewhere cynt\n6:44 PM <•Mood4food77> You just cant show me why items have a place \n6:44 PM <•Mood4food77> You always have to go worst case scenario when defending something\n6:45 PM <•Gespenst> Because whenever there's too much pushback he backs out and acts smug.\n6:45 PM <•Mood4food77> \"Whats the risk with this medication\"\n6:45 PM <•Mood4food77> Heart attack\n6:45 PM <•Mood4food77> You have to go there\n6:45 PM <•Mood4food77> You cant be like, but it cures the cold\n6:45 PM <•Mood4food77> Ill get over the cold a lot better thank \n6:46 PM <•Mood4food77> Than a heart attack\n6:46 PM <•Mood4food77> Your defense is \"calculate the risk\" which we are\n6:46 PM <•Mood4food77> And a lot of dealing with the risk is \"dont attack or you might explode\"\n6:47 PM <•Mood4food77> Please, enlighten me on how to control this\n6:47 PM <•WindalfrM> patience and spacing \n6:47 PM <•WindalfrM> 🙇and 🙅\n6:47 PM <•david> ^\n6:47 PM <•WindalfrM> rise up \n6:47 PM <•david> ^\n6:47 PM <•david> Quit crying\n6:47 PM <•Mood4food77> Patience and spacing\n6:47 PM <•Mood4food77> Quit crying\n6:47 PM <•Mood4food77> Gawd\n6:47 PM <•Mood4food77> Such good advice\n6:48 PM <•Mood4food77> Its so specific and helpful\n6:48 PM <•Mood4food77> Thanks\n6:48 PM <•Mood4food77> Guys\n6:48 PM <•WindalfrM> mood I'm just Fucking around gawd\n6:48 PM <•Mood4food77> Hahahah\n6:48 PM <•david> I'm not\n6:48 PM <•WindalfrM> 😬\n6:48 PM <•Mood4food77> I know\n6:49 PM <•Mood4food77> Fuck you david\n6:49 PM <•david> Spacing and patience\n6:49 PM <•Mood4food77> <3\n6:49 PM <•Mood4food77> Answer to everything\n6:49 PM <•Mood4food77> I mean\n6:49 PM <•WindalfrM> 👬gay\n6:49 PM <•Mood4food77> That isnt what competitive smash is about or anything\n6:49 PM <•david> Where's that charmander gif\n6:49 PM <•david> Cynt?\n6:49 PM <•WindalfrM> 👉👌\n6:49 PM <•david> Cause that's what's going on\n6:49 PM <•WindalfrM> god I'm bored \n6:49 PM <•david> Lol\n6:50 PM <•Mood4food77> I think i scared cynt off\n6:50 PM <•WindalfrM> good\n6:50 PM <•Gespenst> Pussy\n6:50 PM <•Mood4food77> Haha\n6:50 PM <•Mood4food77> I just want a good answer and i still havent gotten it\n6:50 PM <•Gespenst> Because he doesn't have one.\n6:51 PM <•WindalfrM> ^\n6:51 PM <•Gespenst> The only good answer is \"I just want items because I think they're fun,\" or \"I just want items because I'm the worst player on SRK and they make up for my deficiencies.\"\n6:51 PM <•Gespenst> That's personal shit you can't refute.\n6:52 PM <•Gespenst> But don't try to act like they're some format that actually makes the game better.\n6:52 PM <•Mood4food77> Im not going that low\n6:52 PM <•Mood4food77> I want an actual response to how items can help\n6:53 PM <•WindalfrM> ges isn't lying tho\n6:53 PM <•WindalfrM> 🙅\n6:53 PM <•Mood4food77> All ive gotten is \"you have to calculate the risk\"","name":"","extension":"txt","url":"https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/XcQz5MJf","modified":1461366513,"id":"XcQz5MJf","size":13821,"lines":243,"own_paste":false,"theme":"","date":1461366513}