{"body":"11:16 AM <%red3> While we wait for the last few people to finish up, how about we begin with our opening thoughts on this article?\r\n11:18 AM I'm finished as well\r\n11:18 AM Just the first article or the series in its entirety\r\n11:18 AM What r we discussing. I’m new\r\n11:18 AM <%red3> Just the first article for now. We'll do the entire series after we finish it.\r\n11:19 AM <%red3> If you've read the entire thing already, then feel free to reread it or just wait until everyone else is finish so you can see their perspectives on it.\r\n11:19 AM done\r\n11:19 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I will say, I enjoyed the cinematic tone of the piece, and it's something that's always appealed to me across the Resurrection canon.\r\n11:20 AM <+cybersqyd> this is competently written and,,,unpleasant.\r\n11:20 AM <+cybersqyd> there's bits I liked, but the scene with Iris was....uncomfortable in a way I didn't necessarily enjoy\r\n11:20 AM <%red3> This definitely shows that old style of dark, edgy, slightly problematic horror that used to be a lot more prevalent early on in the site's history. There's a male-centered perspective, an emphasis on the psychological toll of this world, and odd inclusions of violence such as the idea to have one of the characters literally fake their own suicide for the first article. It's something that appeals to me personally, but \r\n11:20 AM <%red3> I could easily see it failing if there's elements that are unnecessary to the story.\r\n11:21 AM <%red3> cybersqyd: What made it uncomfortable to you?\r\n11:21 AM <+cybersqyd> Just, like. all of it really? the power dynamics and the way they forced iris to use her powers, and the way it worked.\r\n11:22 AM It relies heavily upon the reader knowing that iris and adrien had a history\r\n11:22 AM Incident Zero does hold a nice place for me due to the whole tone of this. Like you read this and now your in for a ride - good or bad its up for debate. There were some bits that can be seen as uncomfortable such as the gun to the head unless someone does something. I personally thought it a literal gambit with a person's life if someone ain't anomalous\r\n11:23 AM <%red3> I understand Cyber's point that that whole scene was very uncomfortably grim, but I think that's meant to be some of the appeal. This world is meant to be dark and cold, so I think that if it invokes those feelings, it's doing its job.\r\n11:23 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:23 AM <@Calibri_Bold> MalyceGraves: I think that's one of its major niches. It's literally meant to resurrect to \"original canon\" of the SCP Foundation.\r\n11:24 AM I realize that\r\n11:24 AM <+cybersqyd> I mean, I don't think it's *objectively* bad because of those aspects; it's just, not something I personally enjoy much.\r\n11:24 AM (Far as I can recall when I read through MTF Omega-7 stuff, Adrian has a tale dedicated on his life from fresh of the camp scientist to soldier of Omega7 and Abel's plaything)\r\n11:24 AM <%red3> Did Iris actually have a history with Adrian back then? I thought it was just something that was meant to be implied.\r\n11:24 AM I just assume that they did\r\n11:24 AM otherwise adrien threatening to kill himself wouldn't have been as impactful.\r\n11:25 AM Though, I've never lived in the shoes of a 15 year old girl\r\n11:25 AM I don't really understand the implications of living with someone's suicide on their conscience, because I wouldn't\r\n11:26 AM The writing is beautifully done, but it also hits some pretty hard tropes. \r\n11:26 AM <%red3> I think some of the impact is meant to be pure shock. I'd imagine that something like this would be a massive tonal shift from the site's usual articles, so it's meant to be a blunt display of the tone.\r\n11:26 AM The whole \"adrien looking at his male physique in the mirror, sure there are imperfections, but they serve only to make him more perfect\"\r\n11:27 AM i realize that's hyperbole, but\r\n11:27 AM red3, MalyceGraves, Adrian, in that tale I said which I think predates this one, does have a history cause he, Abel, Iris and the members of Omega-7 had to work under Abel's training regime and his... training when they were still around. Hence why its so impactful.\r\n11:27 AM — MalyceGraves shrugs\r\n11:27 AM <+cybersqyd> Mal: ehh. I think it's meant to be like 'if she doesn't do something, she'll feel guilty as if she effectively killed Adrien'; like, survivors guilt kinda thing where even though it's not her fault, she still blames herself for it\r\n11:27 AM <@Calibri_Bold> BlueJones: It does fall short if you haven't read those pieces though.\r\n11:28 AM I see that. It just means very little to me, personally.\r\n11:28 AM <+cybersqyd> fair\r\n11:28 AM <%red3> I do agree that there are a lot of tropes though, especially in the dialogue. The \"Adrian, Stop\" part really annoyed me, I can't imagine a pilot literally just taking \"Just drive\" as an actual order, and the pillowtalk at the beginning used a few \"cool\" phrases to try and make everything seem more serious.\r\n11:28 AM I don't really experience guilt, so playing to that emotion in me is mostly a waste of time\r\n11:28 AM and I generally don't like stories that play on guilt in general\r\n11:28 AM Calibri_Bold: Hmmm I can concede that point, it does hit more if more is known about the characters prior to reading Incident Zero\r\n11:28 AM because it's manipulative as fuck and Idon't like that \r\n11:29 AM <%red3> How are stories revolving around guilt manipulative? I don't really see how invoking an emotion is the same thing as using it to influence a person's decisions.\r\n11:30 AM red3: Imo, it is difficult to manipulate something negative like guilt than it is to making someone feel joy and happiness\r\n11:31 AM red3: I'm saying playing on someone's guilt feels super manipulative to me\r\n11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> I liked the ending\r\n11:31 AM He made iris feel guilty about wanting to be free\r\n11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> it actually setup interesting stuff that made me want to read more\r\n11:31 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah, it's super manipulative of Adrien to use guilt this way; that's the kinda thing that made that section uncomfortable for me\r\n11:32 AM <%red3> Ahh. So you don't like how that entire scene was set up tonally? Again, in some ways I think that that is meant to set up how the Foundation is a cold and manipulative place that uses every technique in the book to indoctrinate the people working for it and the anomalies it contains. \r\n11:32 AM I agree, it does have a solid ending tho\r\n11:33 AM I'm actually more excited about reading this canon now, even if I'm not super thrilled about the setup\r\n11:33 AM <@Calibri_Bold> ^\r\n11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah I mean I get that it's deliberate and I get that like, it's meant to be dark and edgy; but it's a personal thing where I generally prefer tales to be...lighter?\r\n11:33 AM <%red3> cybersqyd: I'm actually not a fan of the ending. The way that the final sentence was phrased was confusing and I didn't quite understand what was happening. Was the base disguised as the mountain, that disguise faded, and then it exploded? That's the best that I got.\r\n11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> yeah\r\n11:33 AM One could argue that it was the O5 that ordered such drastic measures against Iris or Omega-7's training influencing Adrian's action to force her to come back. But then again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending something quite cruel\r\n11:33 AM <@Calibri_Bold> cybersqyd: What's weird is that this canon is generally supposed to be /less/ grim dark.\r\n11:33 AM <+cybersqyd> i imagine the base was in the mountain and like, the mountain explodes somehow\r\n11:34 AM <+cybersqyd> it might be more...metaphorical? idk\r\n11:34 AM The ending to this is very unique and super cool, which made me wanna read more\r\n11:34 AM <+cybersqyd> red3, tbf, when I said I liked the ending, I was really meaning the bit before where Adrian realises he doesn't remember what site they're going to\r\n11:37 AM <%red3> And even if the ending was rewritten, I'm generally not a fan of the action movie style \"And then the building exploded\". I'm worried about how this article is setting up the entire series, especially with the odd sections where the male hero is idolized sexually. It's like if James Bond suddenly turned into a horror movie; the plot intrigues me a little, but I'm not a fan of mashing together those two genres.\r\n11:37 AM <+cybersqyd> i guess.\r\n11:38 AM <@Calibri_Bold> Personally, I give this a very tentative upvote. I agree with Malyce and cybersqyd regarding certain parts, but I think there was enough to it that managed to barely save the piece.\r\n11:38 AM <%red3> I think I'm going to give this a light upvote, since I was somewhat entertained by the end of the whole thing and I feel like it was well-written. But I do hope that this series actually delves into topics like suicide and the psychological toll of working at the Foundation instead of just using them as shock factor, as it seems to have been used here.\r\n11:39 AM <+cybersqyd> I'm no voting it; it's well written and I can understand why someone would enjoy it. But I don't.\r\n11:39 AM I'm gonna give this an upvote due to the characters and their backstories involved\r\n11:40 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I won't deny that I may be looking at this through a nostalgic lens though.\r\n11:40 AM Same here Cal\r\n11:41 AM <@Calibri_Bold> I read through all of Resurrection in my early days on the site, and I believe the style has managed to influence my own writing.\r\n11:41 AM <%red3> I'm looking at this from a fresh set of eyes, since I only learned of the site's existence around the start of Series IV. Does anybody have any other thoughts they'd like to throw out?\r\n11:42 AM I never read it, so this is fresh for me too\r\n11:42 AM kinda\r\n11:42 AM Also\r\n11:42 AM I am upvoting it as an example of the change it represents in the tone of the site as a whole\r\n11:43 AM I see this as trying to bring series 1 more in line with the narrative driven aspects of the modern site\r\n11:43 AM <@Calibri_Bold> ^\r\n","name":"Incident Zero - Part 1","extension":"txt","url":"https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/64XbJMhj/Incident+Zero+-+Part+1","modified":1593629117,"id":"64XbJMhj","size":10422,"lines":78,"own_paste":false,"theme":"","date":1593629117}